1
00:00:14,180 --> 00:00:12,500
[Music]

2
00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:14,190
[Applause]

3
00:00:21,479 --> 00:00:17,110
this whole radios for the massive

4
00:00:23,370 --> 00:00:21,489
Atlanta balloon July 8 1947 the Army Air

5
00:00:25,319 --> 00:00:23,380
Forces has announced that a flying death

6
00:00:26,609 --> 00:00:25,329
has been found and is now in the

7
00:00:29,850 --> 00:00:26,619
possession of the army

8
00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:29,860
the game is rigged change begins game

9
00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:33,010
changer I occasionally think how quickly

10
00:00:40,140 --> 00:00:37,290
our differences worldwide would vanish

11
00:00:47,299 --> 00:00:40,150
if we were facing an alien threat from

12
00:00:52,910 --> 00:00:50,150
fade to black with your host Jimmy

13
00:00:54,319 --> 00:00:52,920
church on the game-changer radio network

14
00:00:59,569 --> 00:00:54,329
and a GRA

15
00:01:08,250 --> 00:01:04,630
you helped into the year 1985

16
00:01:10,470 --> 00:01:08,260
[Music]

17
00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:10,480
your nickname chief thank you drag with

18
00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:14,730
Ginny judge only game-changing network

19
00:01:19,620 --> 00:01:17,650
all right well well Monday morning

20
00:01:24,210 --> 00:01:19,630
Monday afternoon Monday evening

21
00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:24,220
it's Monday back in the chair fade to

22
00:01:32,580 --> 00:01:24,850
black

23
00:01:37,020 --> 00:01:32,590
this spoke radio for the masses that's

24
00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:37,030
right today is Monday May 1st 120 days

25
00:01:40,830 --> 00:01:39,490
into the new year just 245 days left we

26
00:01:43,230 --> 00:01:40,840
are live from a bunker somewhere in

27
00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:43,240
downtown Burbank California and I would

28
00:01:48,570 --> 00:01:44,770
like to welcome everybody listening all

29
00:01:52,650 --> 00:01:51,030
either until there to and fro back and

30
00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:52,660
forth up and down east and west north

31
00:02:00,480 --> 00:01:57,130
and south far and near this is fade to

32
00:02:04,470 --> 00:02:00,490
black for kjt are the game changer

33
00:02:07,470 --> 00:02:04,480
Network and K GRA the planet I'm yours

34
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:07,480
to the church what is cracking everybody

35
00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:13,810
big week did we get ahead in that's

36
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:18,370
because this is our amazing women week

37
00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:21,010
here on day two black we do this every

38
00:02:27,390 --> 00:02:23,650
couple of months right here we go

39
00:02:32,570 --> 00:02:27,400
amazing women week we need an amazing

40
00:02:37,770 --> 00:02:35,910
amazing men fade to black

41
00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:37,780
but it is amazing women week because

42
00:02:46,350 --> 00:02:42,210
tonight to kick it off to start it off

43
00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:46,360
tonight we have Annie Jacobson she's

44
00:02:49,590 --> 00:02:47,410
here to talk about her new book

45
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:49,600
phenomenon the secret history of the US

46
00:02:52,850 --> 00:02:51,130
government's investigations into

47
00:02:55,650 --> 00:02:52,860
extrasensory perception and

48
00:02:57,780 --> 00:02:55,660
psychokinesis tomorrow night Caroline

49
00:02:59,370 --> 00:02:57,790
Corey is here to discuss her new film

50
00:03:01,580 --> 00:02:59,380
gods among us

51
00:03:04,710 --> 00:03:01,590
Wednesday night Trish Eastman and

52
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:04,720
biohacking Thursday night is another

53
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:06,130
fader night with Jon Rappoport

54
00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:10,450
and his no more fake newsroom live there

55
00:03:13,070 --> 00:03:11,050
ya go

56
00:03:15,180 --> 00:03:13,080
follow us on twitter at JT radio

57
00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:15,190
facebook youtube everything's fade to

58
00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:16,930
black signatures radio easy enough to do

59
00:03:19,860 --> 00:03:18,610
using them to figure out just click on

60
00:03:23,310 --> 00:03:19,870
those three little buttons there on the

61
00:03:25,199 --> 00:03:23,320
website i think you can get it done the

62
00:03:28,110 --> 00:03:25,209
sandbox come in hang out with us tonight

63
00:03:31,740 --> 00:03:28,120
as in every night on this show the

64
00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:31,750
sandbox is hashtag f to be on twitter

65
00:03:37,770 --> 00:03:35,410
now everybody asked you know because

66
00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:37,780
hashtag f2b means nothing it's just a

67
00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:40,770
hashtag right but if you have TweetDeck

68
00:03:48,750 --> 00:03:44,730
hashtag f to be is now a column of

69
00:03:49,590 --> 00:03:48,760
tweets in a row all with the hashtag f

70
00:03:52,199 --> 00:03:49,600
to be in it

71
00:03:57,870 --> 00:03:52,209
that's all you got to do get tweet deck

72
00:03:59,280 --> 00:03:57,880
get it going now i did i do this like

73
00:04:00,500 --> 00:03:59,290
every single day I get an email from

74
00:04:02,929 --> 00:04:00,510
somebody do

75
00:04:04,970 --> 00:04:02,939
okay I got it I got TweetDeck but you

76
00:04:05,539 --> 00:04:04,980
know I can't figure it out just hashtag

77
00:04:07,580 --> 00:04:05,549
f2b

78
00:04:09,740 --> 00:04:07,590
tell everybody your fate or not we're

79
00:04:12,350 --> 00:04:09,750
going to see it pop up in our feet here

80
00:04:16,370 --> 00:04:12,360
and somebody will come to the rescue

81
00:04:18,379 --> 00:04:16,380
I promise nobody will ignore you hashtag

82
00:04:20,719 --> 00:04:18,389
f2b come hang out in the sandbox

83
00:04:23,060 --> 00:04:20,729
you can email throughout the show Jimmy

84
00:04:25,930 --> 00:04:23,070
Jimmy Church radio calm if you have any

85
00:04:28,100 --> 00:04:25,940
questions or comments during the show

86
00:04:31,159 --> 00:04:28,110
hashtag f2b

87
00:04:34,250 --> 00:04:31,169
Q because I have a fade to black

88
00:04:39,770 --> 00:04:34,260
question column right there in tweet

89
00:04:42,250 --> 00:04:39,780
deck hashtag if to be Q alright man what

90
00:04:43,909 --> 00:04:42,260
a weekend that we had around here just

91
00:04:46,310 --> 00:04:43,919
absolutely amazing

92
00:04:49,670 --> 00:04:46,320
I want to we posted up the pictures I

93
00:04:52,250 --> 00:04:49,680
want to thank Carol Perrault right now

94
00:04:55,370 --> 00:04:52,260
just she's such a great artist and I

95
00:04:57,950 --> 00:04:55,380
know she's listening right now she

96
00:05:01,070 --> 00:04:57,960
surprised us surprised me I guess Rita

97
00:05:03,710 --> 00:05:01,080
knew it was coming I didn't know with a

98
00:05:06,770 --> 00:05:03,720
couple of amazing paintings and one for

99
00:05:09,469 --> 00:05:06,780
Rita one for myself and we posted the

100
00:05:11,510 --> 00:05:09,479
pictures of it Rita if you could post

101
00:05:15,890 --> 00:05:11,520
those up in real time for everybody to

102
00:05:21,860 --> 00:05:15,900
see the one for Rita was the theme was

103
00:05:25,670 --> 00:05:21,870
cicada 3301 amazing and the one that she

104
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:25,680
painted for the bunker was some aliens

105
00:05:33,710 --> 00:05:28,010
at a cafe drinking fade to black coffee

106
00:05:35,570 --> 00:05:33,720
very very very cool so talented again I

107
00:05:38,330 --> 00:05:35,580
was completely surprised completely

108
00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:38,340
blown away and Thank You Carol

109
00:05:44,029 --> 00:05:41,849
alright and it's good it's come down to

110
00:05:46,820 --> 00:05:44,039
the point now I'm going to rearrange the

111
00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:46,830
bunker somewhat because I have to have

112
00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:51,530
like a Carol Carol perrault wall cut

113
00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:54,930
because of God I've got so many in there

114
00:06:00,439 --> 00:05:57,090
and they're just amazing so just thank

115
00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:00,449
you so much Carol okay where are we at

116
00:06:05,330 --> 00:06:02,610
subscribe to our podcast we have over

117
00:06:08,899 --> 00:06:05,340
600 archive shows custom apps Apple and

118
00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:08,909
Android for the podcast just two dollars

119
00:06:12,470 --> 00:06:11,250
a month coda to maturity comm click on

120
00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:12,480
the podcast

121
00:06:18,170 --> 00:06:14,730
an or two dollars a month until you got

122
00:06:20,780 --> 00:06:18,180
to do Apple store I store Google store

123
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:20,790
search fade to black download the app

124
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:23,010
and then go and get it's just two

125
00:06:27,050 --> 00:06:24,450
dollars a month help support the show

126
00:06:30,140 --> 00:06:27,060
it's great also check out all of our

127
00:06:32,270 --> 00:06:30,150
sponsors live change T kept the T calm

128
00:06:34,780 --> 00:06:32,280
Rodney MacMullen is going to be here in

129
00:06:37,550 --> 00:06:34,790
a couple of minutes for life change t

130
00:06:39,530 --> 00:06:37,560
just go to the banners over I kept the T

131
00:06:42,140 --> 00:06:39,540
dot over to maturity of icon takes you

132
00:06:43,580 --> 00:06:42,150
to get the T calm use the promo code

133
00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:43,590
Jimmy either over the phone or online

134
00:06:47,060 --> 00:06:45,090
when you order you're going to get

135
00:06:48,770 --> 00:06:47,070
yourself some free shipping also River

136
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:48,780
moon coffee again

137
00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:51,450
fade to black blend the best coffee on

138
00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:52,770
planet earth there's no question about

139
00:07:00,290 --> 00:06:56,610
that it trust me I know coffee nobody

140
00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:00,300
nobody on planet Earth i knows coffee

141
00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:03,690
like I do I know my coffee they do black

142
00:07:07,850 --> 00:07:05,610
blend is what you need to drink it is

143
00:07:09,710 --> 00:07:07,860
the best so that it's dark but it

144
00:07:10,910 --> 00:07:09,720
doesn't it doesn't happen to those

145
00:07:15,470 --> 00:07:10,920
people that don't like dark coffee

146
00:07:17,990 --> 00:07:15,480
you'll love this mmm oh man it's just so

147
00:07:20,930 --> 00:07:18,000
good just click on the Rivermen coffee

148
00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:20,940
ban or hash tag or the promo code is f

149
00:07:26,090 --> 00:07:23,610
to be bled you can ask tag if to be

150
00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:26,100
blind to if you want alright all of our

151
00:07:31,190 --> 00:07:28,170
sponsors studio dome speakers this

152
00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:31,200
Thursday we will hold our drawing and

153
00:07:38,390 --> 00:07:34,050
giveaway the studio dome speaker package

154
00:07:40,910 --> 00:07:38,400
and which is a stereo Bluetooth a stereo

155
00:07:43,670 --> 00:07:40,920
system right to SBB two speakers in a

156
00:07:45,740 --> 00:07:43,680
hardshell case and get your get your

157
00:07:48,410 --> 00:07:45,750
name in all you have to do is go to our

158
00:07:51,230 --> 00:07:48,420
membership area and sign up become a

159
00:07:53,630 --> 00:07:51,240
member and what you should really do is

160
00:07:55,670 --> 00:07:53,640
get the game changer become a game

161
00:07:57,460 --> 00:07:55,680
changing fade or not you're going to get

162
00:08:01,850 --> 00:07:57,470
an autograph hat and you're going to get

163
00:08:04,610 --> 00:08:01,860
the t-shirt the full package full year

164
00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:04,620
subscription and it's right there just

165
00:08:08,810 --> 00:08:06,690
go to our membership area don't forget

166
00:08:11,330 --> 00:08:08,820
we've just got a few short days left

167
00:08:14,150 --> 00:08:11,340
before we cut things off for the drawing

168
00:08:16,820 --> 00:08:14,160
that we will do live on the air this

169
00:08:19,010 --> 00:08:16,830
Thursday contacting the deserts coming

170
00:08:20,690 --> 00:08:19,020
up may 19th through the 22nd I cannot

171
00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:20,700
believe it we are less than three weeks

172
00:08:25,620 --> 00:08:24,330
away Joshua Tree California tickets and

173
00:08:27,630 --> 00:08:25,630
info over edge

174
00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:27,640
radio.com we have three big events that

175
00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:29,890
we're doing at contact this year we're

176
00:08:34,260 --> 00:08:31,930
broadcasting live fade to black friday

177
00:08:36,529 --> 00:08:34,270
night from the Lotus room Saturday night

178
00:08:39,710 --> 00:08:36,539
I'm hosting the forbidden archeology

179
00:08:43,020 --> 00:08:39,720
panel in the amphitheater at 7:00 p.m.

180
00:08:45,660 --> 00:08:43,030
Sunday night I'm hosting the disclosure

181
00:08:48,750 --> 00:08:45,670
and government government cover-up panel

182
00:08:51,030 --> 00:08:48,760
again at the amphitheater at 7:00 p.m.

183
00:08:52,740 --> 00:08:51,040
this Sunday night so we have three great

184
00:08:55,620 --> 00:08:52,750
events going on that weekend the best

185
00:08:57,930 --> 00:08:55,630
speakers out there are at contact in the

186
00:09:00,660 --> 00:08:57,940
desert tickets and info food and lodging

187
00:09:03,420 --> 00:09:00,670
and everything that you need is over at

188
00:09:06,210 --> 00:09:03,430
Jimmy Church radio.com and I also want

189
00:09:09,180 --> 00:09:06,220
to remind everybody that yes we will be

190
00:09:17,430 --> 00:09:09,190
at ESET e Rance for the July for the

191
00:09:19,290 --> 00:09:17,440
weekend conference and it is ok I'm

192
00:09:21,510 --> 00:09:19,300
sorry just had a text to come in on my

193
00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:21,520
phone and I couldn't read it

194
00:09:28,260 --> 00:09:26,170
I sort of read it okay we've got texting

195
00:09:30,090 --> 00:09:28,270
problems right now one of one of our

196
00:09:33,510 --> 00:09:30,100
computers is not connecting to the other

197
00:09:38,370 --> 00:09:33,520
studio and it's like John man so now

198
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:38,380
we've got a text by phone anyway he said

199
00:09:43,620 --> 00:09:41,530
he ranch July 4th weekend we will be up

200
00:09:44,340 --> 00:09:43,630
there I think I am speaking twice that

201
00:09:47,190 --> 00:09:44,350
weekend

202
00:09:50,970 --> 00:09:47,200
ok and but the big events are happening

203
00:09:53,190 --> 00:09:50,980
at night night vision and all of the

204
00:09:53,700 --> 00:09:53,200
contact that we are going to do in the

205
00:09:57,180 --> 00:09:53,710
stars

206
00:10:00,840 --> 00:09:57,190
so that's July 4th weekend we should

207
00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:00,850
have all of the info up for July 4th and

208
00:10:05,220 --> 00:10:03,850
ESET e up in the next couple of days so

209
00:10:07,830 --> 00:10:05,230
we'll have all the info that you need

210
00:10:10,580 --> 00:10:07,840
over at 2 meter radio calm but all of

211
00:10:13,230 --> 00:10:10,590
you fate or not you've all wanted to do

212
00:10:16,860 --> 00:10:13,240
what we're going to do which is go up to

213
00:10:19,890 --> 00:10:16,870
e SETI and hang out for a weekend that's

214
00:10:22,740 --> 00:10:19,900
a bucket list right that's something you

215
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:22,750
need to check off on the bucket list

216
00:10:27,060 --> 00:10:24,730
II said II ranch we're doing it this

217
00:10:30,500 --> 00:10:27,070
year we want all of you to come up and

218
00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:30,510
hang out with us all right I've got

219
00:10:34,410 --> 00:10:32,770
Ronnie McMullen here I'm going to get to

220
00:10:35,700 --> 00:10:34,420
him in just a second I want to get a

221
00:10:37,770 --> 00:10:35,710
couple of things out of the way really

222
00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:37,780
quick before I get to Ronnie but he is

223
00:10:40,900 --> 00:10:38,450
in the

224
00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:40,910
batter's box really quick let's get the

225
00:10:46,660 --> 00:10:43,120
show crack and happy birthday to today

226
00:10:48,340 --> 00:10:46,670
director Wes Anderson is 48 years old

227
00:10:49,180 --> 00:10:48,350
he's one of the greats one of my

228
00:10:51,610 --> 00:10:49,190
favorites

229
00:10:54,370 --> 00:10:51,620
bottle rocket Rushmore the Royal

230
00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:54,380
Tenenbaums The Life Aquatic the

231
00:11:00,820 --> 00:10:57,410
Darjeeling Limited moonrise kingdom and

232
00:11:03,850 --> 00:11:00,830
the grand budapest hotel he's got a new

233
00:11:05,860 --> 00:11:03,860
movie right now in production and it's

234
00:11:09,010 --> 00:11:05,870
another stop it's like the amazing mr.

235
00:11:15,250 --> 00:11:09,020
Foxx think it's a stop animation film so

236
00:11:19,090 --> 00:11:15,260
he's working on that right now okay Rita

237
00:11:21,070 --> 00:11:19,100
says the Spreaker promos or are over

238
00:11:24,370 --> 00:11:21,080
It's Made first oh okay

239
00:11:26,230 --> 00:11:24,380
all right she says I guess according to

240
00:11:27,820 --> 00:11:26,240
the rules that we have posted there over

241
00:11:29,850 --> 00:11:27,830
were we going to do the drawing today

242
00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:29,860
thought we were doing it on the fourth

243
00:11:36,190 --> 00:11:33,530
okay all right thanks for that Rita then

244
00:11:38,050 --> 00:11:36,200
I'll change the rules right now go ahead

245
00:11:41,050 --> 00:11:38,060
go to the membership area we'll extend

246
00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:41,060
it through Wednesday all right there you

247
00:11:44,590 --> 00:11:41,600
go

248
00:11:47,460 --> 00:11:44,600
on this day in history 1960 American u-2

249
00:11:51,460 --> 00:11:47,470
spy planes shot down over Russia Russia

250
00:11:57,780 --> 00:11:51,470
piloted by Francis Gary Powers who

251
00:12:03,700 --> 00:11:57,790
survived Fader fact in 2009 Jamie Thomas

252
00:12:08,370 --> 00:12:03,710
racet was fined 1.9 million dollars for

253
00:12:10,540 --> 00:12:08,380
illegally downloading 24 songs that's

254
00:12:14,620 --> 00:12:10,550
$80,000 per song

255
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:14,630
her case was the first such copyright

256
00:12:20,410 --> 00:12:17,810
infringement ever to go to trial in the

257
00:12:23,380 --> 00:12:20,420
United States now what I couldn't find

258
00:12:26,230 --> 00:12:23,390
out is if they actually went through

259
00:12:29,230 --> 00:12:26,240
with that and forced her you know I'm

260
00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:29,240
wondering if she's cut can you imagine

261
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:32,510
for the rest of your life giving away

262
00:12:39,010 --> 00:12:35,090
you know 25 you know having that could

263
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:39,020
you imagine oh man certainly they didn't

264
00:12:43,210 --> 00:12:40,160
enforce that but I couldn't find

265
00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:43,220
anything out about it Jamie Thomas racet

266
00:12:49,330 --> 00:12:45,530
one point nine million dollars for 24

267
00:12:49,930 --> 00:12:49,340
songs all rights on the line the one and

268
00:12:52,540 --> 00:12:49,940
only

269
00:12:55,059 --> 00:12:52,550
Ronny McMullen Ronny goody

270
00:12:58,449 --> 00:12:55,069
how you doing Jimmy I'm doing good man

271
00:13:01,210 --> 00:12:58,459
you got the pipes of doom dude the pipes

272
00:13:04,660 --> 00:13:01,220
of doom Rodney MacMullen everybody from

273
00:13:06,999 --> 00:13:04,670
life change T Ronnie welcome you know oh

274
00:13:08,829 --> 00:13:07,009
this the first week of the month every

275
00:13:12,850 --> 00:13:08,839
month when we bring you on the show

276
00:13:14,829 --> 00:13:12,860
it's such a bright spot for me is it the

277
00:13:16,870 --> 00:13:14,839
same for you do you look forward to

278
00:13:17,740 --> 00:13:16,880
coming out and hanging out with us I do

279
00:13:19,439 --> 00:13:17,750
I do

280
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:19,449
you're the Big Kahuna you're the man

281
00:13:25,420 --> 00:13:22,490
number one in radio you bet you said

282
00:13:28,439 --> 00:13:25,430
that to Sean Hannity - hey oh yeah means

283
00:13:32,439 --> 00:13:28,449
son we're buddy yeah he was young nah so

284
00:13:36,850 --> 00:13:32,449
did you hear that the guy that replaced

285
00:13:39,790 --> 00:13:36,860
Roger Ailes you know over at Fox he

286
00:13:42,220 --> 00:13:39,800
resigned today bill shine Wow

287
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:42,230
so yeah yeah there's having a bit of a

288
00:13:47,499 --> 00:13:44,930
ruckus over yeah yeah yeah yeah speaking

289
00:13:50,710 --> 00:13:47,509
of Hannity right so anyway the point

290
00:13:55,210 --> 00:13:50,720
being you know was Roger Ailes

291
00:13:59,079 --> 00:13:55,220
O'Reilly now bill shine that's the top

292
00:14:01,329 --> 00:13:59,089
three guys over there I suppose that you

293
00:14:03,370 --> 00:14:01,339
could call Sean Hannity the big star

294
00:14:05,410 --> 00:14:03,380
over at Fox is certainly not talk or

295
00:14:08,019 --> 00:14:05,420
talkers a doofus

296
00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:08,029
he talker used to be great but you know

297
00:14:14,290 --> 00:14:11,110
I don't know now I like the old Tucker

298
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:14,300
but it is sean hannity the big kahuna

299
00:14:19,420 --> 00:14:17,810
over at fox i mean really that would

300
00:14:22,150 --> 00:14:19,430
just come down shun's

301
00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:22,160
sounds a big boy and and you know he's

302
00:14:26,980 --> 00:14:24,290
kind of in trouble too because he was

303
00:14:28,929 --> 00:14:26,990
stating this last week that he wanted a

304
00:14:30,370 --> 00:14:28,939
high he's hiring a team of lawyers and

305
00:14:32,079 --> 00:14:30,380
he's not putting up with these people

306
00:14:35,259 --> 00:14:32,089
saying things about him and everything

307
00:14:38,050 --> 00:14:35,269
else and so you know if he's got to hire

308
00:14:42,189 --> 00:14:38,060
a team of lawyers not a good position

309
00:14:44,129 --> 00:14:42,199
right right right was my thought ah he

310
00:14:48,429 --> 00:14:44,139
can't you know you know the problem with

311
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:48,439
sean is he cares about what people say

312
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:49,370
about him

313
00:14:53,470 --> 00:14:52,250
I don't says he doesn't beginner so so

314
00:14:54,790 --> 00:14:53,480
right you know the other thing about

315
00:14:58,059 --> 00:14:54,800
Sean that cracks me up

316
00:14:59,319 --> 00:14:58,069
is I think he gets an arm ache because

317
00:15:02,199 --> 00:14:59,329
he's always patting himself on the back

318
00:15:03,549 --> 00:15:02,209
so nobody can fight him on the back

319
00:15:04,580 --> 00:15:03,559
because he's too busy doing it himself

320
00:15:10,610 --> 00:15:04,590
yeah

321
00:15:13,820 --> 00:15:10,620
because I tell you I tell you why there

322
00:15:15,770 --> 00:15:13,830
was a moment in time when he was you

323
00:15:19,900 --> 00:15:15,780
know you know he's a San Diego guy right

324
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:19,910
news Southern California and he was like

325
00:15:27,410 --> 00:15:23,250
tolerable listenable all right and I

326
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:27,420
don't know what you can't in this

327
00:15:30,050 --> 00:15:28,170
industry

328
00:15:34,130 --> 00:15:30,060
let me tell you what you can't do in

329
00:15:36,860 --> 00:15:34,140
this industry you cannot let what people

330
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:36,870
are going to talk right people are going

331
00:15:42,830 --> 00:15:39,690
to talk you can't control that you

332
00:15:45,140 --> 00:15:42,840
cannot control it so wasting your time

333
00:15:48,110 --> 00:15:45,150
trying to control what people think

334
00:15:50,750 --> 00:15:48,120
about you or say about you is a waste of

335
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:50,760
energy and that's lesson one in this

336
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:53,850
industry because then it takes you off

337
00:15:58,280 --> 00:15:55,770
your game which means the people that

338
00:16:00,350 --> 00:15:58,290
are talking about you when that's the

339
00:16:04,010 --> 00:16:00,360
first thing and the second thing is it

340
00:16:07,850 --> 00:16:04,020
it changes you as a person

341
00:16:09,890 --> 00:16:07,860
it changes you who you were on the air

342
00:16:11,450 --> 00:16:09,900
when you first started when you first

343
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:11,460
started writing books when you first

344
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:13,050
started in journalism when you first

345
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:15,810
started painting pictures you know

346
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:19,050
writing songs in a band whatever it is

347
00:16:23,540 --> 00:16:20,370
when you're in the you know in that

348
00:16:25,070 --> 00:16:23,550
creative thing is it you don't care what

349
00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:25,080
people think and you're a rebel

350
00:16:31,820 --> 00:16:27,510
I don't care what people say I'm I'm I'm

351
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:31,830
doing my own thing right okay then as

352
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:33,210
soon as you start to listen to people

353
00:16:37,220 --> 00:16:35,370
you change and that's exactly the

354
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:37,230
opposite of who you thought you were

355
00:16:41,810 --> 00:16:39,930
when you were a kid when you didn't care

356
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:41,820
what people said including your parents

357
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:46,050
right am i right and money changes the

358
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:48,810
game you know can you do this we just

359
00:16:52,910 --> 00:16:50,490
give you some of this money right here

360
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:52,920
you don't have to do it just like this

361
00:16:58,730 --> 00:16:55,970
just kind of go this direction okay

362
00:17:01,070 --> 00:16:58,740
until pretty soon you're making ten mil

363
00:17:04,310 --> 00:17:01,080
as a talk-show host that's been totally

364
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:04,320
bought off right right and again you can

365
00:17:12,050 --> 00:17:09,600
do it and pick and choose when you first

366
00:17:14,570 --> 00:17:12,060
start off yeah yeah yeah I get it you're

367
00:17:16,220 --> 00:17:14,580
struggling to you know to you know have

368
00:17:16,699 --> 00:17:16,230
a car payment maybe you're even just

369
00:17:18,980 --> 00:17:16,709
trying to

370
00:17:21,409 --> 00:17:18,990
by a car right and you're trying you

371
00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:21,419
know I get that and money is more

372
00:17:25,579 --> 00:17:23,130
important back then but as you go

373
00:17:28,189 --> 00:17:25,589
through your career that money should

374
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:28,199
become less and less important to you

375
00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:29,520
because you're not worrying about it

376
00:17:35,210 --> 00:17:32,130
anymore right and it shouldn't change

377
00:17:36,649 --> 00:17:35,220
you for some reason it does for some

378
00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:36,659
reason that does look at everybody in

379
00:17:42,350 --> 00:17:39,510
Washington DC Ronnie yeah you know

380
00:17:44,810 --> 00:17:42,360
everybody that was elected everybody

381
00:17:47,180 --> 00:17:44,820
that first time you run the first time

382
00:17:50,870 --> 00:17:47,190
you're City Council and you're doing

383
00:17:52,730 --> 00:17:50,880
your thing you you have you have morals

384
00:17:54,919 --> 00:17:52,740
and goals and you know you represent

385
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:54,929
your constituents and your neighbors and

386
00:17:58,610 --> 00:17:56,610
the people that you know and you want to

387
00:18:02,210 --> 00:17:58,620
go fight the good fight the second you

388
00:18:05,769 --> 00:18:02,220
get to Washington DC it all changes back

389
00:18:09,350 --> 00:18:05,779
that Peart that day that day it changes

390
00:18:11,090 --> 00:18:09,360
you know how how wonderful you know I

391
00:18:14,210 --> 00:18:11,100
know that you thought about this a lot

392
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:14,220
and and how wonderful would it be in

393
00:18:23,090 --> 00:18:19,730
this country if lobbying was illegal oh

394
00:18:25,820 --> 00:18:23,100
that would be woo and be good can be

395
00:18:28,010 --> 00:18:25,830
real good I mean completely illegal wait

396
00:18:30,919 --> 00:18:28,020
oh there's a homeland yeah yeah

397
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:30,929
completely illegal you spend money in

398
00:18:36,649 --> 00:18:34,710
Washington DC to do what right and put

399
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:36,659
that CEO in prison right from the

400
00:18:41,180 --> 00:18:39,210
company and put the lobbyists in jail

401
00:18:43,850 --> 00:18:41,190
whoever got caught doing it throw the

402
00:18:44,659 --> 00:18:43,860
congressman or senator out of office you

403
00:18:46,820 --> 00:18:44,669
know you know what I mean

404
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:46,830
think about that first I could just made

405
00:18:53,029 --> 00:18:50,250
it illegal well that would change things

406
00:18:55,850 --> 00:18:53,039
all of that money that is you know

407
00:18:58,370 --> 00:18:55,860
wasted you know would go somewhere else

408
00:19:00,529 --> 00:18:58,380
into the economy hopefully but just

409
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:00,539
think about that for a second yeah I

410
00:19:06,889 --> 00:19:03,690
think the same way about mass media mass

411
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:06,899
media goes a certain way to based on not

412
00:19:12,620 --> 00:19:09,570
necessarily lobbyists but certain

413
00:19:15,950 --> 00:19:12,630
influential people and changes really

414
00:19:19,310 --> 00:19:15,960
the news into more of propaganda yeah so

415
00:19:21,169 --> 00:19:19,320
we could just have the news yeah not not

416
00:19:22,820 --> 00:19:21,179
the spin you know I mean they're telling

417
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:22,830
you but Bill O'Reilly no spin he's

418
00:19:26,419 --> 00:19:24,090
telling you right there I'm spending

419
00:19:26,990 --> 00:19:26,429
your ass you know I mean it's kind of

420
00:19:28,909 --> 00:19:27,000
like you know

421
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:28,919
yeah I'm not going to eat that means

422
00:19:33,020 --> 00:19:30,510
you're going to go pork out you know

423
00:19:35,180 --> 00:19:33,030
what see and then and that's why I love

424
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:35,190
bringing you on this show because you

425
00:19:39,890 --> 00:19:37,110
know we should be you know talking about

426
00:19:41,810 --> 00:19:39,900
you and your products but I think that

427
00:19:44,330 --> 00:19:41,820
listeners need to understand you know

428
00:19:46,340 --> 00:19:44,340
who is behind life change T and what a

429
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:46,350
great company that it is and that you're

430
00:19:50,779 --> 00:19:48,090
real person and you're down to earth

431
00:19:53,330 --> 00:19:50,789
your feet are on the ground and and you

432
00:19:54,470 --> 00:19:53,340
care you know and that's that's one of

433
00:19:56,510 --> 00:19:54,480
the things because you and I could just

434
00:19:59,360 --> 00:19:56,520
sit and talk all night I really

435
00:20:01,340 --> 00:19:59,370
appreciate that about you what's new

436
00:20:04,279 --> 00:20:01,350
over at life change T speaking of that

437
00:20:06,020 --> 00:20:04,289
well here's something new just news wise

438
00:20:08,020 --> 00:20:06,030
and it's not really new but it's

439
00:20:13,310 --> 00:20:08,030
something for all the geo-engineering

440
00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:13,320
climate change Kentrell you know we have

441
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:14,400
different names for it

442
00:20:18,830 --> 00:20:16,650
I think they and them change the names

443
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:18,840
just so we can't track them but for

444
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:20,880
those people that want to know you know

445
00:20:27,260 --> 00:20:23,970
are we being bombarded by this or is

446
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:27,270
this conspiracy theory and this is going

447
00:20:31,159 --> 00:20:29,010
to be heading towards those might think

448
00:20:33,980 --> 00:20:31,169
this is conspiracy theory

449
00:20:37,909 --> 00:20:33,990
it's actually up now geoengineering dot

450
00:20:40,789 --> 00:20:37,919
environment dot Harvard education this

451
00:20:43,789 --> 00:20:40,799
is at Harvard University advancing

452
00:20:46,340 --> 00:20:43,799
science and technology Harvard solar geo

453
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:46,350
engineering research program will

454
00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:48,330
develop methods that might reduce the

455
00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:50,640
risk and improve the efficiency of solar

456
00:20:57,350 --> 00:20:54,000
geo engineering so this is telling you

457
00:20:59,899 --> 00:20:57,360
not only is it there but it's been there

458
00:21:02,960 --> 00:20:59,909
for quite some time to have a whole

459
00:21:05,450 --> 00:21:02,970
research program and it goes into how

460
00:21:08,419 --> 00:21:05,460
they're going to spray us and the reason

461
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:08,429
I'm talking like this is because this

462
00:21:11,299 --> 00:21:10,080
has been a battle of mine this has been

463
00:21:13,070 --> 00:21:11,309
something close to my heart because

464
00:21:14,990 --> 00:21:13,080
we're being sprayed we're being poisoned

465
00:21:16,940 --> 00:21:15,000
and everybody goes all that's conspiracy

466
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:16,950
theory and you go well you know yeah I

467
00:21:20,750 --> 00:21:18,570
guess it is because I really don't have

468
00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:20,760
any proof in my pocket you can interview

469
00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:22,799
scientists and which I have and all

470
00:21:27,649 --> 00:21:24,809
these people but it really doesn't hold

471
00:21:29,570 --> 00:21:27,659
accountable when it's up okay and it's

472
00:21:31,490 --> 00:21:29,580
up on Harvard education on Harvard

473
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:31,500
University we're kind of telling you

474
00:21:34,940 --> 00:21:33,450
here we go this is different now we're

475
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:34,950
rocking because I don't know about you

476
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:36,570
Jimmy but I know you live halfway close

477
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:39,570
to me you stayed over but I haven't seen

478
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:40,720
the Sun but two days

479
00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:43,570
that of about 15 so this is really

480
00:21:48,060 --> 00:21:45,520
important and the reason I bring this up

481
00:21:49,799 --> 00:21:48,070
is because for those of you that really

482
00:21:51,710 --> 00:21:49,809
want to be into the truth you can't

483
00:21:54,690 --> 00:21:51,720
fight the good fight if you're sick and

484
00:21:57,060 --> 00:21:54,700
so when you know why is it we're all

485
00:21:58,890 --> 00:21:57,070
getting viruses at the exact same time

486
00:22:00,720 --> 00:21:58,900
Jimmy I haven't shook your hand yet and

487
00:22:02,580 --> 00:22:00,730
yet you and I could end up suffering

488
00:22:04,919 --> 00:22:02,590
from the same virus from the same flu

489
00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:04,929
and so it used to be well you didn't

490
00:22:07,770 --> 00:22:06,640
wash your hands well you touch that well

491
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:07,780
you're in the same room with so-and-so

492
00:22:11,399 --> 00:22:09,520
that's not the case anymore right

493
00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:11,409
they're dropping it on us so with this

494
00:22:14,700 --> 00:22:12,880
being said and it's sitting right here

495
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:14,710
at Harvard education right there's

496
00:22:18,510 --> 00:22:16,450
Harvard University they have a whole

497
00:22:19,860 --> 00:22:18,520
program and it goes I'm not going to

498
00:22:21,390 --> 00:22:19,870
bore everybody with all the details but

499
00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:21,400
you might want to go to geoengineering

500
00:22:26,399 --> 00:22:24,130
dot environment Harvard education and

501
00:22:29,310 --> 00:22:26,409
read it for yourself what does it have

502
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:29,320
to do with health it means that it's

503
00:22:34,470 --> 00:22:31,570
going to break down your immune system

504
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:34,480
and that is what makes you sick that's

505
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:36,250
what makes you go to Urgent Care that's

506
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:37,690
what makes you go to the hospital and

507
00:22:41,789 --> 00:22:39,010
that's what makes you have an early

508
00:22:43,740 --> 00:22:41,799
death so with this being said and the

509
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:43,750
food obviously with Monsanto and I

510
00:22:46,830 --> 00:22:45,490
thought it was interesting Jimmy I got

511
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:46,840
this in the mail today I've never even

512
00:22:51,149 --> 00:22:48,850
heard of them but I'm after I'm going to

513
00:22:53,370 --> 00:22:51,159
have to research him but there was a

514
00:22:55,919 --> 00:22:53,380
whole thing it's called Natural

515
00:22:58,830 --> 00:22:55,929
Resources Defense Council and it's all

516
00:23:01,860 --> 00:22:58,840
on on Bush are not Bush excuse me it's

517
00:23:03,210 --> 00:23:01,870
all on Trump and the Environmental

518
00:23:05,070 --> 00:23:03,220
Protection Agency and how they're

519
00:23:07,289 --> 00:23:05,080
basically selling us out to Monsanto and

520
00:23:08,279 --> 00:23:07,299
bear and it's I got to be the research I

521
00:23:09,390 --> 00:23:08,289
mean because I knew about and how

522
00:23:12,270 --> 00:23:09,400
they're killing our bees and blah blah

523
00:23:14,070 --> 00:23:12,280
blah I got this the same day as I'm

524
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:14,080
looking at this geoengineering stuff and

525
00:23:19,380 --> 00:23:15,490
and you know it kind of makes me nervous

526
00:23:20,940 --> 00:23:19,390
because if those bees die I mean they

527
00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:20,950
are dying that's that's a fact without

528
00:23:25,529 --> 00:23:23,110
this information still a fact right if

529
00:23:27,390 --> 00:23:25,539
they die the last B when it dies we have

530
00:23:29,940 --> 00:23:27,400
five years as a world population and

531
00:23:32,159 --> 00:23:29,950
we're dead yeah roll over this is this

532
00:23:34,620 --> 00:23:32,169
huge new so and it's been there but it

533
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:34,630
needs to be brought out more because we

534
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:38,770
need to be let's put it this way one of

535
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:40,570
the big factories try things Tyson

536
00:23:43,470 --> 00:23:42,130
basically said hey we're not going to

537
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:43,480
put antibiotics in our chicken anymore

538
00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:45,520
and I thought wow this is really good I

539
00:23:49,350 --> 00:23:47,110
mean we're a long way from free-range

540
00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:49,360
chickens but at least it's something all

541
00:23:51,299 --> 00:23:49,510
right

542
00:23:52,529 --> 00:23:51,309
so that how did that happen that

543
00:23:54,150 --> 00:23:52,539
happened because people stood up and

544
00:23:56,550 --> 00:23:54,160
said we're not going to buy your crap

545
00:23:58,110 --> 00:23:56,560
anymore that's exactly right we're not

546
00:23:59,280 --> 00:23:58,120
going to buy your crap you know maybe we

547
00:24:00,870 --> 00:23:59,290
can't get in the streets and put our

548
00:24:02,670 --> 00:24:00,880
pickets up that that doesn't work anyway

549
00:24:04,230 --> 00:24:02,680
but we're not going to buy your crap and

550
00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:04,240
then when you start putting you know and

551
00:24:07,770 --> 00:24:05,710
really we need to stand up and say okay

552
00:24:08,930 --> 00:24:07,780
that's good we like that but we're still

553
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:08,940
not going to rush to all your

554
00:24:13,110 --> 00:24:11,530
restaurants and buy your crap you need

555
00:24:15,450 --> 00:24:13,120
to get free-range chicken in there that

556
00:24:16,980 --> 00:24:15,460
it's organic then we're going to Russian

557
00:24:18,690 --> 00:24:16,990
we're going to buy your food so long in

558
00:24:20,610 --> 00:24:18,700
the short of it is we're being bombarded

559
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:20,620
with chemicals and chemicals and more

560
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:22,960
chemicals and this is why we're not

561
00:24:27,390 --> 00:24:24,610
living to the age we're supposed to live

562
00:24:29,340 --> 00:24:27,400
to all the same is our food does not

563
00:24:31,550 --> 00:24:29,350
have the stuff that it used to have 50

564
00:24:34,650 --> 00:24:31,560
years ago and that's why you use

565
00:24:36,330 --> 00:24:34,660
supplements so I would just tell your

566
00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:36,340
listeners and your listeners or wise

567
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:38,080
there you know if they're listening to

568
00:24:42,780 --> 00:24:40,450
you they've got it going on and this is

569
00:24:45,660 --> 00:24:42,790
not just to do sales this is just saying

570
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:45,670
that what do you buy for me are anywhere

571
00:24:50,580 --> 00:24:48,610
buy the supplement and make sure you

572
00:24:52,260 --> 00:24:50,590
supplement because if you don't your

573
00:24:54,150 --> 00:24:52,270
immune system is going to be crap and if

574
00:24:55,980 --> 00:24:54,160
you that immune system goes fully down

575
00:24:57,270 --> 00:24:55,990
you're done like a dinner you're going

576
00:24:59,070 --> 00:24:57,280
to be an urgent care you're going to be

577
00:25:01,410 --> 00:24:59,080
in the hospital and this is not a fear

578
00:25:03,270 --> 00:25:01,420
tactic it's just a it's really a warrior

579
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:03,280
tactic it's like you know if you're

580
00:25:06,900 --> 00:25:05,050
going to go get in a boxing ring with a

581
00:25:09,420 --> 00:25:06,910
good fighter it's probably a good idea

582
00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:09,430
to be trained so the point being is if

583
00:25:12,510 --> 00:25:11,110
you're going to jump in and be in the

584
00:25:14,790 --> 00:25:12,520
poison world it's probably a good idea

585
00:25:16,170 --> 00:25:14,800
to be healthy which is taking care of

586
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:16,180
your health it should be a lot more

587
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:18,610
important than buying a new shirt it

588
00:25:26,010 --> 00:25:23,770
should be and I cannot speak enough for

589
00:25:29,700 --> 00:25:26,020
the you know your products in your

590
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:29,710
company because over the last year where

591
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:33,370
we have gone because before that Rita

592
00:25:39,810 --> 00:25:36,130
Knight look it's it's the truth read and

593
00:25:42,180 --> 00:25:39,820
I love to cook we love to eat we love to

594
00:25:44,910 --> 00:25:42,190
celebrate and hang out with our friends

595
00:25:46,590 --> 00:25:44,920
and family that's what we do but what we

596
00:25:48,660 --> 00:25:46,600
didn't do and Rita and I have been

597
00:25:53,580 --> 00:25:48,670
together for for 20 years you know

598
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:53,590
almost 20 years and and through that we

599
00:26:00,060 --> 00:25:56,890
because we we love to do all of those

600
00:26:01,860 --> 00:26:00,070
things we start we ignored you know we

601
00:26:03,510 --> 00:26:01,870
meant to we used to buy supplements

602
00:26:06,820 --> 00:26:03,520
early which you know but they would

603
00:26:08,710 --> 00:26:06,830
always just sit on the shelf I I have

604
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:08,720
over the house I literally have a

605
00:26:16,090 --> 00:26:12,650
garbage bag full of pills right of

606
00:26:20,050 --> 00:26:16,100
supplements a garbage bag and and that's

607
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:20,060
no joke and your stuff is the first time

608
00:26:26,770 --> 00:26:24,010
that I saw not only changes in Rita and

609
00:26:30,250 --> 00:26:26,780
changes in myself but changes that we're

610
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:30,260
real right and and it's the first time

611
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:35,330
so now it's I feel like I feel like

612
00:26:40,690 --> 00:26:37,370
you're like the most skilled drug dealer

613
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:40,700
out there you know the first the first

614
00:26:47,050 --> 00:26:43,490
date is actually yeah yeah the first hit

615
00:26:50,380 --> 00:26:47,060
is free right because now I literally

616
00:26:52,060 --> 00:26:50,390
crave your products I need to have them

617
00:26:54,220 --> 00:26:52,070
in my system I can tell what I'm not

618
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:54,230
taking them you know what did I say to

619
00:26:59,470 --> 00:26:57,410
you earlier today dude I need more I

620
00:27:01,300 --> 00:26:59,480
need more I need stuff I don't have any

621
00:27:04,150 --> 00:27:01,310
stuff yes there are stuff less I'm a

622
00:27:06,910 --> 00:27:04,160
come on I need more stuff come on Jimmy

623
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:06,920
it's the truth and you did tell me we've

624
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:08,570
got one minute left here Ronnie so I'm

625
00:27:12,580 --> 00:27:10,370
going to make this really quick you told

626
00:27:15,070 --> 00:27:12,590
me today that you've got it's not on the

627
00:27:18,460 --> 00:27:15,080
website yet but it's going to be in the

628
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:18,470
next few days oregano drops is that

629
00:27:22,870 --> 00:27:20,690
fillet of oregano yeah people may

630
00:27:25,180 --> 00:27:22,880
actually asking for that and so I've got

631
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:25,190
it and it does a great bunch of stuff we

632
00:27:29,020 --> 00:27:26,690
can't talk about it we're out of time I

633
00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:29,030
have one more beautiful item that is so

634
00:27:33,790 --> 00:27:31,910
exciting I'm so excited about this but I

635
00:27:36,250 --> 00:27:33,800
can't share it you're going to buy now

636
00:27:37,810 --> 00:27:36,260
first pack I know right Kahuna yes

637
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:37,820
everybody else it'll be on the website

638
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:40,640
and week yes yes everybody I know what

639
00:27:44,230 --> 00:27:41,930
it is and I'll tell you what Ronnie

640
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:44,240
we've got to 15 seconds left so let me

641
00:27:48,820 --> 00:27:46,970
just say this next week when it launches

642
00:27:51,210 --> 00:27:48,830
we'll get you back on fade to black

643
00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:51,220
because this is one of the most exciting

644
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:54,080
not only things for you but it's a

645
00:27:57,730 --> 00:27:56,210
game-changer for this country in the

646
00:27:59,890 --> 00:27:57,740
world and you're going to launch this

647
00:28:01,120 --> 00:27:59,900
next week so we'll get you on next week

648
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:01,130
and we'll talk more about it when the

649
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:03,530
launch happens sounds good sounds good

650
00:28:08,350 --> 00:28:06,410
and again you're the great Kahuna thank

651
00:28:11,860 --> 00:28:08,360
you so much everybody Rodney MacMullen

652
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:11,870
life change t just go to gets to t calm

653
00:28:16,180 --> 00:28:14,090
use Jimmy either online or over the

654
00:28:18,940 --> 00:28:16,190
phone when you order you're going to get

655
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:18,950
yourself free shipping Ronnie say good

656
00:28:22,770 --> 00:28:20,050
night to everybody

657
00:28:25,530 --> 00:28:22,780
you know guys Ronnie McMullen life

658
00:28:26,970 --> 00:28:25,540
change t get the t-dot-com

659
00:28:28,470 --> 00:28:26,980
this is fade to black on the game

660
00:28:31,950 --> 00:28:28,480
changer Network I'm yours to be Church

661
00:28:34,210 --> 00:28:31,960
I'll be right back with Annie Jacobsen

662
00:29:02,140 --> 00:28:34,220
you stay right there

663
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:08,480
[Music]

664
00:29:14,930 --> 00:29:11,530
you're listening to Jimmy Church fade to

665
00:29:28,410 --> 00:29:17,850
thank you Dr Manette walls for aid in

666
00:29:30,750 --> 00:29:28,420
addition to the K GRA radio when you

667
00:29:33,690 --> 00:29:30,760
take the beans from Central American

668
00:29:35,820 --> 00:29:33,700
with dashes Indonesian and African mixed

669
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:35,830
in and then roast it to the dark side of

670
00:29:42,570 --> 00:29:39,010
fade to black you create the ultimate

671
00:29:45,780 --> 00:29:42,580
brew of Fringe introducing the fade to

672
00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:45,790
black blend from River moon coffee yes

673
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:49,120
River moons darkest customized roast was

674
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:50,770
created for the love of

675
00:29:56,909 --> 00:29:54,370
fade to black the alchemy of masterful

676
00:30:00,150 --> 00:29:56,919
roasting and smoking the beans is in

677
00:30:04,350 --> 00:30:00,160
every sip of this full-bodied dark Java

678
00:30:06,659 --> 00:30:04,360
I need my coffee doc deep with distinct

679
00:30:09,390 --> 00:30:06,669
bittersweet chocolate highlights just

680
00:30:11,820 --> 00:30:09,400
like the bunker leaning further into the

681
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:11,830
darkness of the roast is fade to black

682
00:30:16,770 --> 00:30:15,130
blend from river moon coffee just click

683
00:30:20,070 --> 00:30:16,780
on the banner at Jimmy Church radio.com

684
00:30:25,010 --> 00:30:20,080
and use the promo code F to B blend for

685
00:30:28,230 --> 00:30:25,020
15% off of your order today Gobekli Tepe

686
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:28,240
hi folks let's win the clocks back 60

687
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:30,970
years food was different food provided

688
00:30:34,980 --> 00:30:32,770
health and nutrition and using

689
00:30:37,650 --> 00:30:34,990
supplements with minimal unfortunately

690
00:30:39,570 --> 00:30:37,660
now we have chemicals GMOs herbicides

691
00:30:42,299 --> 00:30:39,580
and pesticides they can be quite lethal

692
00:30:43,289 --> 00:30:42,309
in the name of our food supply and of

693
00:30:45,330 --> 00:30:43,299
course the ever loving dollar

694
00:30:47,669 --> 00:30:45,340
supplementing our diets can be very

695
00:30:49,830 --> 00:30:47,679
important to stay healthy cleansing from

696
00:30:52,169 --> 00:30:49,840
daily intruders to the body might be

697
00:30:54,930 --> 00:30:52,179
critical live strong and take charge

698
00:30:56,789 --> 00:30:54,940
logon to get the t-dot-com our herbal

699
00:30:59,220 --> 00:30:56,799
tea is a great way to cleanse from

700
00:31:01,650 --> 00:30:59,230
intruders our supplements is a great way

701
00:31:04,169 --> 00:31:01,660
to maintain and improve your health

702
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:04,179
when your health is not up to par go to

703
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:07,690
get the t-dot-com no GMOs no fillers and

704
00:31:12,990 --> 00:31:10,570
organic and very helpful in keeping you

705
00:31:15,750 --> 00:31:13,000
at the top of your game life is too

706
00:31:18,180 --> 00:31:15,760
short to feel uh you know what I mean

707
00:31:19,460 --> 00:31:18,190
stay in the game at the top of your game

708
00:31:23,270 --> 00:31:19,470
with get the

709
00:31:25,460 --> 00:31:23,280
a dot-com that's get the t-dot-com again

710
00:31:30,950 --> 00:31:25,470
get the t-dot-com

711
00:31:35,930 --> 00:31:30,960
nine out of ten geneticists agree these

712
00:31:39,620 --> 00:31:35,940
two Blatt is not your father's radio

713
00:31:45,740 --> 00:31:39,630
show on the game-changer radio network

714
00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:45,750
and kgr a the planet hi this is chase

715
00:31:50,060 --> 00:31:48,240
plus key with fate magazine radio and

716
00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:50,070
you're listening to Jimmy Church and

717
00:31:55,370 --> 00:31:52,289
fade to black on the game changer

718
00:32:00,049 --> 00:31:55,380
network and ckg are a digital broadcast

719
00:32:02,090 --> 00:32:00,059
station where the fader knots Rock hi

720
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:02,100
this is Rob Reiner from amal and you're

721
00:32:08,779 --> 00:32:05,690
listening to Jimmy George radio calm

722
00:32:12,060 --> 00:32:08,789
what's up whatever that I imagine we

723
00:32:19,570 --> 00:32:12,070
lived in the same each church radio

724
00:32:19,580 --> 00:32:27,080
[Music]

725
00:32:30,630 --> 00:32:29,100
all right welcome back

726
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:30,640
fade to black I'm your host Jimmy Church

727
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:33,610
on the game changer Network in kg RA the

728
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:37,050
planet you can follow me on twitter at

729
00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:41,410
JDO can follow Annie at Annie

730
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:43,360
Jacobson it's up there and Twitter right

731
00:32:50,370 --> 00:32:47,290
now in the feed excited part of our

732
00:32:52,620 --> 00:32:50,380
amazing women week here on fade to black

733
00:32:56,250 --> 00:32:52,630
kicking it off tonight is Annie Jacobson

734
00:32:59,250 --> 00:32:56,260
she is a journalist selling author 2016

735
00:33:01,680 --> 00:32:59,260
Pulitzer Prize finalist by the way her

736
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:01,690
books area 51 Operation Paperclip

737
00:33:05,310 --> 00:33:03,970
and the Pentagon's brains were New York

738
00:33:07,650 --> 00:33:05,320
Times bestsellers and have been

739
00:33:10,380 --> 00:33:07,660
collectively published in many languages

740
00:33:11,430 --> 00:33:10,390
her newest book is phenomenon the secret

741
00:33:13,650 --> 00:33:11,440
history of the United States

742
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:13,660
investigates government's investigations

743
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:16,330
into extrasensory perception and

744
00:33:22,050 --> 00:33:18,850
psychokinesis it was released last month

745
00:33:24,060 --> 00:33:22,060
on March 28th Operation Paperclip was

746
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:24,070
chosen as one of the best non-fiction

747
00:33:29,910 --> 00:33:27,250
books of 2014 by the Boston Globe and

748
00:33:33,510 --> 00:33:29,920
Apple iBooks and Publishers Weekly the

749
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:33,520
pentagon's brain by the way was a 2016

750
00:33:37,890 --> 00:33:35,410
Pulitzer Prize finalist in the history

751
00:33:41,460 --> 00:33:37,900
category and when I sent out the

752
00:33:44,820 --> 00:33:41,470
congratulatory tweet Annie for that it

753
00:33:48,050 --> 00:33:44,830
was a warm spot in my life just to just

754
00:33:50,730 --> 00:33:48,060
to have her name like that in the

755
00:33:52,650 --> 00:33:50,740
Pulitzer list it's just absolutely

756
00:33:54,210 --> 00:33:52,660
amazing and it was chosen also is one of

757
00:33:55,890 --> 00:33:54,220
the best books of the year by the

758
00:33:59,160 --> 00:33:55,900
Washington Post the Boston Globe and

759
00:34:02,070 --> 00:33:59,170
Amazon each of her books is in

760
00:34:05,910 --> 00:34:02,080
television development with bahala AMC

761
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:05,920
plan B Rat Pack Warner Brothers JJ

762
00:34:13,230 --> 00:34:09,010
Abrams and bad robot and Spielberg's

763
00:34:14,580 --> 00:34:13,240
Amblin bloom house now Annie graduated

764
00:34:16,350 --> 00:34:14,590
from st. Paul school of Princeton

765
00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:16,360
University where she wrote with Joyce

766
00:34:21,240 --> 00:34:18,910
Carol Oates and Paul Auster studied

767
00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:21,250
Greek and served my favorite things

768
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:23,440
about Annie as captain of the

769
00:34:29,580 --> 00:34:27,760
Princeton's women's hockey team okay how

770
00:34:31,950 --> 00:34:29,590
do I go back to fade to black hockey

771
00:34:34,950 --> 00:34:31,960
player and he Jacobson Annie good

772
00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:34,960
evening thank you for having me and it's

773
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:37,510
always good to hear your voice and

774
00:34:43,260 --> 00:34:41,919
I want to kind of start here the book is

775
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:43,270
amazing and we're going to get to that

776
00:34:50,099 --> 00:34:48,010
in a second but when you hear the ice

777
00:34:53,369 --> 00:34:50,109
hockey team at Princeton do you ever

778
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:53,379
tire of hearing that because you're an

779
00:34:58,140 --> 00:34:55,570
author your best-selling author now and

780
00:35:01,920 --> 00:34:58,150
and their that is sitting out there I

781
00:35:03,780 --> 00:35:01,930
think it's pretty cool um you know it's

782
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:03,790
funny you say that because that was not

783
00:35:09,690 --> 00:35:07,210
known publicly until maybe a one-book

784
00:35:11,550 --> 00:35:09,700
ago and I was on I was doing a radio

785
00:35:14,250 --> 00:35:11,560
show or maybe it was a television show

786
00:35:16,020 --> 00:35:14,260
and boom someone threw that at me and it

787
00:35:19,730 --> 00:35:16,030
took me by surprise because I thought

788
00:35:22,950 --> 00:35:19,740
that was a long buried secret of my past

789
00:35:25,230 --> 00:35:22,960
so I it's only been brought up recently

790
00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:25,240
you should see this a photograph of me

791
00:35:28,530 --> 00:35:26,320
playing hockey though that's what they

792
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:28,540
presented me with and I look pretty

793
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:31,810
I look pretty bad pretty gnarly to say

794
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:33,040
the second part of the equation but I

795
00:35:39,930 --> 00:35:37,210
can't I don't know from yeah right right

796
00:35:42,060 --> 00:35:39,940
right well I'm going to dig up that

797
00:35:44,340 --> 00:35:42,070
photograph one day okay

798
00:35:46,890 --> 00:35:44,350
and do you still play do you ever go out

799
00:35:50,010 --> 00:35:46,900
there's plenty of rinks here in Southern

800
00:35:53,820 --> 00:35:50,020
California you know when I moved to

801
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:53,830
California in the early 90s I'm dating

802
00:35:59,250 --> 00:35:56,650
myself here I play I was still in hockey

803
00:36:02,070 --> 00:35:59,260
shape and I played with the retired King

804
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:02,080
mmm that is back in the day when the

805
00:36:07,590 --> 00:36:04,210
team used to be owned by Bruce McNall

806
00:36:09,330 --> 00:36:07,600
remember remember yep yep yep yep and so

807
00:36:11,250 --> 00:36:09,340
I played then but you know two kids

808
00:36:14,099 --> 00:36:11,260
later and a couple book under your belt

809
00:36:18,330 --> 00:36:14,109
I think my hockey skills have fallen by

810
00:36:20,790 --> 00:36:18,340
the wayside I'm sad to say well you know

811
00:36:22,260 --> 00:36:20,800
wow we did beat the Russians that's all

812
00:36:24,270 --> 00:36:22,270
that's all I know that's all the

813
00:36:25,710 --> 00:36:24,280
batteries that's all that matters is but

814
00:36:27,359 --> 00:36:25,720
you know I had such a good slap shot I

815
00:36:30,650 --> 00:36:27,369
used to be able to get it right around

816
00:36:33,810 --> 00:36:30,660
your throat and can't do that anymore so

817
00:36:36,180 --> 00:36:33,820
you lose your spark you lose your spark

818
00:36:38,670 --> 00:36:36,190
I just got any Jacobson this a slap shot

819
00:36:41,010 --> 00:36:38,680
on the air there you go

820
00:36:43,290 --> 00:36:41,020
life is complete now your first your

821
00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:43,300
first three books you know you've been

822
00:36:48,630 --> 00:36:46,960
on with us through all of those and I

823
00:36:50,309 --> 00:36:48,640
already thanked you for that by the way

824
00:36:54,150 --> 00:36:50,319
you know there it's always great having

825
00:36:57,089 --> 00:36:54,160
you on but I said to you today that this

826
00:37:00,539 --> 00:36:57,099
may be your best book yet and that says

827
00:37:02,279 --> 00:37:00,549
a lot because 51 a paperclip and

828
00:37:05,069 --> 00:37:02,289
pentagons brain these were these were

829
00:37:08,460 --> 00:37:05,079
game-changing books but this one is

830
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:08,470
pretty cool did you feel it as you were

831
00:37:14,430 --> 00:37:10,210
writing it and where did you get the

832
00:37:15,779 --> 00:37:14,440
idea of for it oh my goodness thank you

833
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:15,789
for saying that because you never know I

834
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:17,650
mean I think part of being an author

835
00:37:21,779 --> 00:37:20,170
part of being a reporter part of being a

836
00:37:24,329 --> 00:37:21,789
journalist is you just have to bury

837
00:37:27,210 --> 00:37:24,339
yourself in this idea that you think is

838
00:37:30,660 --> 00:37:27,220
super interesting and try to execute it

839
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:30,670
in a way but you never know and and so

840
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:33,130
thank you for saying that I think that

841
00:37:40,109 --> 00:37:37,210
the the idea of writing a book like this

842
00:37:43,829 --> 00:37:40,119
has had been sort of a seedling that I

843
00:37:45,690 --> 00:37:43,839
considered a lot but after I wrote the

844
00:37:50,299 --> 00:37:45,700
pentagon's brain which really dealt with

845
00:37:53,279 --> 00:37:50,309
so much hard science you know top-level

846
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:53,289
cutting-edge military technology science

847
00:37:58,400 --> 00:37:56,170
which was quite frightening by the way I

848
00:38:02,819 --> 00:37:58,410
mean by the end of about that book I

849
00:38:05,599 --> 00:38:02,829
wanted to delve into something that was

850
00:38:09,630 --> 00:38:05,609
some might say squishy science and

851
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:09,640
others would say is more you know when

852
00:38:12,089 --> 00:38:10,480
you're dealing with things like

853
00:38:14,279 --> 00:38:12,099
consciousness when you're dealing with

854
00:38:17,249 --> 00:38:14,289
fact versus fantasy when you're dealing

855
00:38:20,359 --> 00:38:17,259
with science versus the supernatural

856
00:38:22,589 --> 00:38:20,369
there's a lot more room for

857
00:38:24,980 --> 00:38:22,599
philosophical ideas you know that's not

858
00:38:29,809 --> 00:38:24,990
to say the book is esoteric but you can

859
00:38:32,370 --> 00:38:29,819
one can allow their mind to consider

860
00:38:34,380 --> 00:38:32,380
different ideas and I wanted to do that

861
00:38:36,359 --> 00:38:34,390
as a reporter because you get you work

862
00:38:38,339 --> 00:38:36,369
in hard science for a long time and it

863
00:38:40,470 --> 00:38:38,349
can get you know it can get really the

864
00:38:44,730 --> 00:38:40,480
focus can get very narrow this felt like

865
00:38:48,029 --> 00:38:44,740
a bigger broader focus the the way that

866
00:38:50,009 --> 00:38:48,039
the CIA and well let's just say

867
00:38:55,290 --> 00:38:50,019
Washington DC in general the

868
00:38:59,670 --> 00:38:55,300
military-industrial complex views

869
00:39:03,820 --> 00:38:59,680
the supernatural or ESP or telekinesis

870
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:03,830
today I think is still running but in a

871
00:39:08,890 --> 00:39:06,290
clandestine form because it's

872
00:39:10,690 --> 00:39:08,900
economically very smart right you're not

873
00:39:13,410 --> 00:39:10,700
sending people around the world you can

874
00:39:17,050 --> 00:39:13,420
maybe do this from an office somewhere

875
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:17,060
but their interest in it is genuine and

876
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:21,530
real is the Soviet Union also running

877
00:39:25,300 --> 00:39:23,210
parallel with us we're going to get more

878
00:39:26,890 --> 00:39:25,310
in depth about this later but do you

879
00:39:29,050 --> 00:39:26,900
think that they are still running their

880
00:39:31,750 --> 00:39:29,060
programs as we are here in the United

881
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:31,760
States ah you made a Freudian slip there

882
00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:34,880
yeah do you mean is Russia still running

883
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:38,510
you know Russia still running their

884
00:39:45,099 --> 00:39:42,530
program yes right I mean but you said is

885
00:39:47,650 --> 00:39:45,109
the Soviet Union which is that gap that

886
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:47,660
I make because many of my sources would

887
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:50,090
tell you that that that Russia is the

888
00:39:56,140 --> 00:39:54,050
Soviet Union Mandela effect that's the

889
00:39:59,200 --> 00:39:56,150
Mandela effect just came into play right

890
00:40:01,000 --> 00:39:59,210
there that was well absolutely well I

891
00:40:02,470 --> 00:40:01,010
think that's a that's kind of like small

892
00:40:05,980 --> 00:40:02,480
picture big picture of what we're

893
00:40:07,060 --> 00:40:05,990
talking about here yeah yes what's the

894
00:40:12,490 --> 00:40:07,070
nature of the beast

895
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:12,500
but look let me circle back to DARPA for

896
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:13,730
a minute but in the last book the

897
00:40:20,140 --> 00:40:15,050
Pentagon's brain I was asked that

898
00:40:24,550 --> 00:40:20,150
question you know absolutely Russia and

899
00:40:29,220 --> 00:40:24,560
China have a DARPA and absolutely Russia

900
00:40:33,220 --> 00:40:29,230
and China have a phenomenal program the

901
00:40:36,099 --> 00:40:33,230
I wanted to start with the end before we

902
00:40:40,510 --> 00:40:36,109
move backwards and so and the reason for

903
00:40:43,180 --> 00:40:40,520
asking that is today I'm not so sure

904
00:40:46,420 --> 00:40:43,190
with the way that black projects are run

905
00:40:47,470 --> 00:40:46,430
and we don't want to admit that we have

906
00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:47,480
a program running

907
00:40:54,339 --> 00:40:49,910
neither would Russia neither would China

908
00:40:57,700 --> 00:40:54,349
because this is the this is the real

909
00:40:59,620 --> 00:40:57,710
arms race today isn't it

910
00:41:01,329 --> 00:40:59,630
I would say it's one of the real arms

911
00:41:02,829 --> 00:41:01,339
races you know because there are there

912
00:41:04,780 --> 00:41:02,839
are multiple parallel programs but

913
00:41:08,410 --> 00:41:04,790
interestingly what I found I went into

914
00:41:11,950 --> 00:41:08,420
this thinking that I would only find

915
00:41:14,890 --> 00:41:11,960
hints and slivers of acknowledgment of a

916
00:41:17,819 --> 00:41:14,900
program a phenomena program if you will

917
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:17,829
an ESP program and I was astonished

918
00:41:23,859 --> 00:41:21,050
literally when I discovered that there

919
00:41:26,609 --> 00:41:23,869
that at least one Defense Department

920
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:26,619
agency the Office of Naval Research

921
00:41:32,890 --> 00:41:30,290
admits to having a program today going

922
00:41:34,569 --> 00:41:32,900
on a multi-million dollar program and of

923
00:41:37,230 --> 00:41:34,579
course they don't call it extrasensory

924
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:37,240
perception or remote viewing or

925
00:41:45,250 --> 00:41:40,970
psychokinesis they call it anomalous

926
00:41:48,430 --> 00:41:45,260
mental phenomena anomalous cognition so

927
00:41:52,540 --> 00:41:48,440
the rubric has changed too you know

928
00:41:55,839 --> 00:41:52,550
encompass this very high technology 21st

929
00:41:59,790 --> 00:41:55,849
century nomenclature so that it

930
00:42:02,289 --> 00:41:59,800
disguises any suggestion that this is

931
00:42:05,109 --> 00:42:02,299
anything having to do with what critics

932
00:42:08,589 --> 00:42:05,119
would call the paranormal but this is a

933
00:42:10,270 --> 00:42:08,599
real program and the one that the Office

934
00:42:11,620 --> 00:42:10,280
of Naval Research has in particular that

935
00:42:14,589 --> 00:42:11,630
I found particularly interesting and I

936
00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:14,599
wrote about they described as the spidey

937
00:42:20,049 --> 00:42:16,730
sense let me talk about bringing it full

938
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:20,059
circle to you know 21st century and in

939
00:42:26,530 --> 00:42:22,450
it they explore premonition and

940
00:42:28,809 --> 00:42:26,540
intuition in sailors and Marines so

941
00:42:31,420 --> 00:42:28,819
let's go backwards now that we've

942
00:42:34,180 --> 00:42:31,430
established that because that's the end

943
00:42:37,349 --> 00:42:34,190
you guys the endgame which is today then

944
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:37,359
now now let's back up a little bit and

945
00:42:44,980 --> 00:42:41,530
the research that you have done with

946
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:44,990
Operation Paperclip area 51 and the

947
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:48,890
connections to the Nazi war machine and

948
00:42:53,799 --> 00:42:50,690
what went on before World War two as

949
00:42:56,950 --> 00:42:53,809
well as you started to write this book

950
00:43:00,160 --> 00:42:56,960
did you expect to have these same

951
00:43:03,579 --> 00:43:00,170
connections there you can almost replace

952
00:43:06,250 --> 00:43:03,589
Operation Paperclip with Supernatural

953
00:43:09,039 --> 00:43:06,260
nouns and verbs and you know what I mean

954
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:09,049
it's like the same program but the one

955
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:10,570
that we know about is paper

956
00:43:15,410 --> 00:43:12,720
what we don't know about is the

957
00:43:19,830 --> 00:43:15,420
supernatural side that was going on in

958
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:19,840
1938 39 and 40 you are correct and I

959
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:21,850
think part of the reason why we don't

960
00:43:27,540 --> 00:43:23,290
know about this and we didn't know about

961
00:43:30,780 --> 00:43:27,550
it and I do bring some new facts to bear

962
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:30,790
in the book phenomena it be part of the

963
00:43:35,010 --> 00:43:32,050
reason we don't know about it is because

964
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:35,020
of the stigma attached with anything

965
00:43:41,610 --> 00:43:38,290
about the occult so in other words the

966
00:43:44,460 --> 00:43:41,620
the US military industrial defense

967
00:43:47,700 --> 00:43:44,470
contracting world is perfectly happy to

968
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:47,710
boast about like let's look at this for

969
00:43:55,710 --> 00:43:51,610
example the ICBM which is a you know the

970
00:44:00,360 --> 00:43:55,720
mothership of the Arsenal let's say and

971
00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:00,370
good and began with the v2 so therefore

972
00:44:05,190 --> 00:44:03,280
it's very out in the open to say well

973
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:05,200
yes these Nazi rocket scientists were

974
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:09,130
part and parcel to our you know military

975
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:13,210
strength today but you do not hear any

976
00:44:20,820 --> 00:44:17,200
kind of boasting about the ESP programs

977
00:44:23,490 --> 00:44:20,830
and that's because there's such a taboo

978
00:44:26,610 --> 00:44:23,500
affiliated with things like extrasensory

979
00:44:28,770 --> 00:44:26,620
perception psychokinesis and also what I

980
00:44:30,870 --> 00:44:28,780
write about a lot in phenomena which I

981
00:44:32,430 --> 00:44:30,880
have not seen written about at length

982
00:44:35,940 --> 00:44:32,440
before in this kind of context is

983
00:44:39,630 --> 00:44:35,950
another of the phenomena called map

984
00:44:43,620 --> 00:44:39,640
dowsing which was a very big part of the

985
00:44:46,350 --> 00:44:43,630
Nazi program and was also discovered in

986
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:46,360
this cache of documents of Nazi

987
00:44:52,050 --> 00:44:47,770
documents that I write about in the book

988
00:44:54,390 --> 00:44:52,060
that were found by our military

989
00:44:56,910 --> 00:44:54,400
intelligence unit at the end of the war

990
00:45:00,900 --> 00:44:56,920
and the cache of documents was called

991
00:45:03,870 --> 00:45:00,910
das on a mare Bay which was Heinrich

992
00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:03,880
Himmler's science organization and

993
00:45:08,430 --> 00:45:05,760
within that there was a specific

994
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:08,440
organization that dealt with the

995
00:45:12,470 --> 00:45:10,720
paranormal and it has a very long German

996
00:45:14,730 --> 00:45:12,480
name which I will not try and pronounce

997
00:45:17,250 --> 00:45:14,740
yeah I read it

998
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:17,260
a few times and I'm not going to try to

999
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:22,210
pronounce it either the MV is the map

1000
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:23,770
okay

1001
00:45:29,460 --> 00:45:26,890
the map dowsing part which if you look

1002
00:45:32,850 --> 00:45:29,470
at URI Geller's house today that house

1003
00:45:33,570 --> 00:45:32,860
was built on map dowsing right if you

1004
00:45:35,820 --> 00:45:33,580
know what I mean

1005
00:45:38,430 --> 00:45:35,830
V and you could say if you look at one

1006
00:45:40,260 --> 00:45:38,440
of our regulars multiple houses those

1007
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:40,270
houses were built on master they

1008
00:45:46,109 --> 00:45:43,090
seriously were I mean the petroleum

1009
00:45:49,410 --> 00:45:46,119
industry and Yuri okay well anyway let's

1010
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:49,420
not go go quite that sideways just yet

1011
00:45:56,270 --> 00:45:54,130
but map dowsing itself with the research

1012
00:45:59,550 --> 00:45:56,280
that you have done to publish this book

1013
00:46:01,770 --> 00:45:59,560
do you think that it's it's real I've

1014
00:46:04,859 --> 00:46:01,780
interviewed many people about it but

1015
00:46:06,390 --> 00:46:04,869
what's your take on it really quick okay

1016
00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:06,400
so for those listening that aren't

1017
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:08,800
familiar with map dowsing very quickly

1018
00:46:17,730 --> 00:46:14,050
it's the idea of for map dowsing is

1019
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:17,740
swinging a pendulum over a map to try

1020
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:20,170
and determine a specific point on the

1021
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:22,570
map where something is located if you

1022
00:46:28,170 --> 00:46:24,010
take away map and you just consider

1023
00:46:32,460 --> 00:46:28,180
dowsing that would be trying to locate

1024
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:32,470
something hidden underground by means of

1025
00:46:37,590 --> 00:46:35,290
a dowsing stick which by the way is

1026
00:46:40,650 --> 00:46:37,600
believed and you're talking way back in

1027
00:46:42,900 --> 00:46:40,660
you know prehistory that is believed to

1028
00:46:45,980 --> 00:46:42,910
be the origin of the magic long the map

1029
00:46:50,310 --> 00:46:45,990
dowsing stone and so map dowsing

1030
00:46:53,340 --> 00:46:50,320
historically was used to locate whether

1031
00:46:55,980 --> 00:46:53,350
it's minerals or water or treasure

1032
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:55,990
underground and it has a long history in

1033
00:47:04,470 --> 00:46:59,920
kind of mythology etc now the big

1034
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:04,480
question is is this you know is this it

1035
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:06,490
does it have real results or is it you

1036
00:47:10,830 --> 00:47:08,650
know fantasy is it the placebo effect is

1037
00:47:13,470 --> 00:47:10,840
it the Tinkerbell effect etc well

1038
00:47:15,750 --> 00:47:13,480
certainly scientists and the geological

1039
00:47:18,570 --> 00:47:15,760
Association of America will tell you

1040
00:47:20,370 --> 00:47:18,580
this is pure fantasy it's nonsense it's

1041
00:47:22,410 --> 00:47:20,380
bunk I mean they have a number of names

1042
00:47:24,740 --> 00:47:22,420
for it none of which are flattering on

1043
00:47:30,470 --> 00:47:24,750
the other side of the argument you have

1044
00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:30,480
many call them anecdotal if you like

1045
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:35,280
experiences events where math dowsing

1046
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:38,970
uses real results and so this gets us to

1047
00:47:45,020 --> 00:47:41,970
the heart and soul of the book phenomena

1048
00:47:48,350 --> 00:47:45,030
which is that battle between you know

1049
00:47:51,530 --> 00:47:48,360
two sides on the one hand the scientific

1050
00:47:54,230 --> 00:47:51,540
skeptics who cry foul with any of this

1051
00:47:58,790 --> 00:47:54,240
and on the other side those who are in

1052
00:48:01,190 --> 00:47:58,800
the work who say okay fine

1053
00:48:03,470 --> 00:48:01,200
the phenomena don't follow the

1054
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:03,480
scientific method right in as much as

1055
00:48:08,450 --> 00:48:05,280
that they are not repeatable right but

1056
00:48:10,670 --> 00:48:08,460
we are in the hypothesis stage and the

1057
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:10,680
CIA will fall on that side as well and

1058
00:48:16,100 --> 00:48:14,250
say you know and I quote declassified

1059
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:16,110
documents throughout the book to support

1060
00:48:21,820 --> 00:48:18,890
this where the CIA is just as baffled as

1061
00:48:24,500 --> 00:48:21,830
any of those who are in the work saying

1062
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:24,510
there is inescapable evidence of the

1063
00:48:30,830 --> 00:48:28,050
phenomena is real albeit intermittent so

1064
00:48:33,710 --> 00:48:30,840
when you ask me what do I think I'm

1065
00:48:35,930 --> 00:48:33,720
going to defer back to the contents of

1066
00:48:39,770 --> 00:48:35,940
the book which is it's the whole story I

1067
00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:39,780
tell in one 450 pages which is here's

1068
00:48:43,790 --> 00:48:41,760
what one side said here's what the other

1069
00:48:47,540 --> 00:48:43,800
side said here's what happened

1070
00:48:50,990 --> 00:48:47,550
and then the reader gets to decide what

1071
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:51,000
they think because I really think the

1072
00:49:00,320 --> 00:48:54,330
position of the author is less important

1073
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:00,330
than the the details of the story's

1074
00:49:08,980 --> 00:49:03,690
being narrated with an understanding

1075
00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:12,110
psychological you know way in all of

1076
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:13,680
that comes into play whenever you're

1077
00:49:20,510 --> 00:49:16,850
talking about these mysterious and

1078
00:49:22,430 --> 00:49:20,520
age-old you know mythological concepts

1079
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:22,440
yeah and it's interesting because if you

1080
00:49:27,410 --> 00:49:24,810
if we just stop and think for a second

1081
00:49:31,450 --> 00:49:27,420
certainly here in the United States when

1082
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:31,460
the homesteading was going down how many

1083
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:35,130
homesteads were were placed where they

1084
00:49:41,210 --> 00:49:38,970
were because of dowsing how many like

1085
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:41,220
many many many many many is not nice

1086
00:49:45,020 --> 00:49:42,930
right and you know one of my first

1087
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:45,030
experiences ever when I have to say

1088
00:49:49,190 --> 00:49:46,890
what's mapped out what's dowsing rather

1089
00:49:51,230 --> 00:49:49,200
was when I was writing

1090
00:49:52,940 --> 00:49:51,240
um the area 51 book and I was

1091
00:49:55,910 --> 00:49:52,950
interviewing an old-timer who worked

1092
00:49:57,650 --> 00:49:55,920
there who was explaining when the CIA

1093
00:50:00,319 --> 00:49:57,660
was building the base one of the biggest

1094
00:50:02,569 --> 00:50:00,329
problem was they couldn't find water

1095
00:50:04,700 --> 00:50:02,579
right and they tried everything and they

1096
00:50:06,859 --> 00:50:04,710
had they certainly had no shortage of

1097
00:50:08,900 --> 00:50:06,869
engineers out there at the Nevada Test

1098
00:50:10,609 --> 00:50:08,910
Site and that was you know you had the

1099
00:50:12,410 --> 00:50:10,619
world's top engineers designing nuclear

1100
00:50:15,530 --> 00:50:12,420
weapons and none of them could find

1101
00:50:18,170 --> 00:50:15,540
water they bring in an old GAO sir you

1102
00:50:21,620 --> 00:50:18,180
know the sort of wizened old man with a

1103
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:21,630
rancher hat and a forked stick and lo

1104
00:50:27,530 --> 00:50:24,570
and behold he takes his stick out you

1105
00:50:30,170 --> 00:50:27,540
know roams around the area 51 area and

1106
00:50:32,300 --> 00:50:30,180
says this is where the water is they

1107
00:50:34,099 --> 00:50:32,310
drill and what do they find the water

1108
00:50:37,339 --> 00:50:34,109
and that's the well and that story was

1109
00:50:38,930 --> 00:50:37,349
you know multiple verified from multiple

1110
00:50:41,020 --> 00:50:38,940
sources yep that's how we found the

1111
00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:41,030
water and so then you have to say well

1112
00:50:46,579 --> 00:50:43,680
what does that mean yeah and so as an

1113
00:50:48,980 --> 00:50:46,589
author I mean for you but when you came

1114
00:50:52,069 --> 00:50:48,990
into this I mean what was your take on

1115
00:50:54,260 --> 00:50:52,079
dowsing and didn't change that I guess

1116
00:50:57,010 --> 00:50:54,270
that's the question did your position

1117
00:50:59,720 --> 00:50:57,020
change on it when you finish the book

1118
00:51:00,470 --> 00:50:59,730
this is how much my position shifted

1119
00:51:03,740 --> 00:51:00,480
okay

1120
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:03,750
so let's use the great reference point

1121
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:06,810
which was created by Gertrude mindler

1122
00:51:13,819 --> 00:51:09,450
who was the experimental psychologist

1123
00:51:17,180 --> 00:51:13,829
from Harvard who in the 50s became very

1124
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:17,190
interested in this subject matter but

1125
00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:20,970
her way in was how and why people

1126
00:51:27,109 --> 00:51:23,609
believe or don't believe how do they

1127
00:51:29,720 --> 00:51:27,119
perceive how can people have completely

1128
00:51:33,650 --> 00:51:29,730
different perceptions of the same event

1129
00:51:37,609 --> 00:51:33,660
okay and that led her into ESP and then

1130
00:51:39,890 --> 00:51:37,619
she became a real pioneer in this area

1131
00:51:42,109 --> 00:51:39,900
but she created a system for dealing

1132
00:51:45,950 --> 00:51:42,119
with all this called the sheep and the

1133
00:51:48,290 --> 00:51:45,960
goats and she determined that people who

1134
00:51:53,710 --> 00:51:48,300
or rather she called people who were

1135
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:53,720
absolutely convinced that it was in

1136
00:51:58,040 --> 00:51:56,130
impossibility that any of this existed

1137
00:52:00,349 --> 00:51:58,050
they were scientific skeptics they were

1138
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:00,359
the goats and on the other side of the

1139
00:52:06,950 --> 00:52:03,210
spectrum were the sheep those who were

1140
00:52:09,530 --> 00:52:06,960
open to the idea that ESP and other

1141
00:52:10,940 --> 00:52:09,540
kinds of phenomena were possible and I

1142
00:52:13,210 --> 00:52:10,950
think it's interesting to point out that

1143
00:52:14,839 --> 00:52:13,220
the key word is open to it they were not

1144
00:52:18,109 --> 00:52:14,849
convinced that it's possible they were

1145
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:18,119
simply open to it sheep and goats now if

1146
00:52:22,579 --> 00:52:19,890
you hold that thought for a minute and

1147
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:22,589
consider that was her you know framework

1148
00:52:28,190 --> 00:52:25,290
in the 1950s and then you consider the

1149
00:52:30,950 --> 00:52:28,200
most recent Gallup poll that exists on

1150
00:52:32,770 --> 00:52:30,960
this subject matter bolete you know do

1151
00:52:35,420 --> 00:52:32,780
people believe in this kind of thing

1152
00:52:38,710 --> 00:52:35,430
it's fascinating to me that the majority

1153
00:52:42,829 --> 00:52:38,720
of Americans are sheep okay

1154
00:52:46,070 --> 00:52:42,839
76 percent of Americans are you know

1155
00:52:48,589 --> 00:52:46,080
define themselves as sheep and 24

1156
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:48,599
percent were goats or scientific

1157
00:52:55,130 --> 00:52:51,930
skeptics but very interesting you find

1158
00:52:57,890 --> 00:52:55,140
the loudest voice from the skeptics and

1159
00:52:59,780 --> 00:52:57,900
so people often think it's you know 5050

1160
00:53:02,210 --> 00:52:59,790
or perhaps even that there are more

1161
00:53:05,210 --> 00:53:02,220
skeptics and believers if you will when

1162
00:53:07,490 --> 00:53:05,220
an in fact in fact the opposite is true

1163
00:53:10,010 --> 00:53:07,500
but I think that goes back to the stigma

1164
00:53:13,490 --> 00:53:10,020
of thinking about this kind of thing so

1165
00:53:15,530 --> 00:53:13,500
to answer your question if I considered

1166
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:15,540
myself neutral in the beginning and

1167
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:19,490
approached the subject diligently

1168
00:53:26,390 --> 00:53:21,599
attempting to look at both sides of the

1169
00:53:28,970 --> 00:53:26,400
argument I came out of it all skewering

1170
00:53:31,700 --> 00:53:28,980
toward a sheep right skewering toward

1171
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:31,710
being open to this and I think also what

1172
00:53:39,170 --> 00:53:34,890
I found interesting is that you know I

1173
00:53:42,230 --> 00:53:39,180
found the scientists in the work and

1174
00:53:44,270 --> 00:53:42,240
remember weeding out the charlatans and

1175
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:44,280
the fraudsters and the snake oil

1176
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:46,050
salesmen

1177
00:53:52,430 --> 00:53:49,770
I found the scientists who were working

1178
00:53:54,020 --> 00:53:52,440
in this and dedicated to this kind of

1179
00:53:55,940 --> 00:53:54,030
work and had been in this kind of work

1180
00:53:59,210 --> 00:53:55,950
for decades to be extraordinarily

1181
00:54:00,560 --> 00:53:59,220
interesting people and I found for the

1182
00:54:02,810 --> 00:54:00,570
most part you know with some exceptions

1183
00:54:05,630 --> 00:54:02,820
but on the other hand of all the

1184
00:54:08,420 --> 00:54:05,640
skeptics that I interviewed I found them

1185
00:54:12,740 --> 00:54:08,430
to be much more curmudgeonly than I

1186
00:54:14,060 --> 00:54:12,750
expected much more closed-minded you

1187
00:54:18,310 --> 00:54:14,070
might say

1188
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:18,320
most specifically I found them to be

1189
00:54:27,620 --> 00:54:24,090
really sarcastic and kind of questioning

1190
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:27,630
you know certainly meet my intellectual

1191
00:54:33,950 --> 00:54:30,930
you know or kind of a suggesting that I

1192
00:54:37,370 --> 00:54:33,960
was somehow intellectually inferior by

1193
00:54:39,980 --> 00:54:37,380
even wanting to write about this subject

1194
00:54:41,330 --> 00:54:39,990
matter and being stubborn as I am that

1195
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:41,340
made me want to write about it all the

1196
00:54:46,340 --> 00:54:43,890
more yeah that's the one thing when it

1197
00:54:49,810 --> 00:54:46,350
comes to skeptics if there's one thing

1198
00:54:56,090 --> 00:54:49,820
that gets under my skin it's just that

1199
00:54:57,980 --> 00:54:56,100
that once you are well okay sheep is a

1200
00:54:59,510 --> 00:54:57,990
weird thing for us to say on the show

1201
00:55:01,880 --> 00:54:59,520
because of Bill Cooper that's another

1202
00:55:03,530 --> 00:55:01,890
story but but when you throw in the goat

1203
00:55:07,490 --> 00:55:03,540
side okay we're talking about sheep and

1204
00:55:11,930 --> 00:55:07,500
goat that the skeptics immediately take

1205
00:55:14,660 --> 00:55:11,940
the position of superiority in breaking

1206
00:55:19,940 --> 00:55:14,670
up right absolutely if you're crazy

1207
00:55:22,220 --> 00:55:19,950
it mean I it's very polarized and it's

1208
00:55:24,590 --> 00:55:22,230
almost I mean I would say you know I

1209
00:55:30,770 --> 00:55:24,600
actually am going to 100 percent of the

1210
00:55:32,930 --> 00:55:30,780
skeptics I interviewed were that

1211
00:55:34,340 --> 00:55:32,940
polarizing I mean no one said like oh

1212
00:55:36,050 --> 00:55:34,350
yeah it's an interesting subject but I

1213
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:36,060
certainly don't even believe it you know

1214
00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:37,890
they didn't that that's not the position

1215
00:55:44,060 --> 00:55:41,520
the position is very sarcastic and and

1216
00:55:47,300 --> 00:55:44,070
they kind of go on the attack and I find

1217
00:55:53,150 --> 00:55:47,310
that I'm not fascinating yeah especially

1218
00:55:54,770 --> 00:55:53,160
when their answer is no right they don't

1219
00:55:57,380 --> 00:55:54,780
they don't they don't back it up with

1220
00:56:00,650 --> 00:55:57,390
anything it's like no it can't be no no

1221
00:56:02,810 --> 00:56:00,660
no no well what do you mean now they

1222
00:56:04,370 --> 00:56:02,820
will throw it back at us and say well

1223
00:56:06,500 --> 00:56:04,380
what about the evidence that you have

1224
00:56:08,630 --> 00:56:06,510
and we can say well there's a B C D and

1225
00:56:11,810 --> 00:56:08,640
D we have this where this research we

1226
00:56:16,070 --> 00:56:11,820
have this woody well my I don't need it

1227
00:56:18,260 --> 00:56:16,080
I only need to say no and that's the

1228
00:56:21,740 --> 00:56:18,270
thing you know just it just it just it

1229
00:56:22,990 --> 00:56:21,750
it infuriates me and it just infuriates

1230
00:56:25,150 --> 00:56:23,000
me

1231
00:56:26,770 --> 00:56:25,160
well I think it's also a lot more fun to

1232
00:56:27,010 --> 00:56:26,780
have an open mind I mean I really mean

1233
00:56:29,980 --> 00:56:27,020
that

1234
00:56:35,230 --> 00:56:29,990
you know I think it allows you more

1235
00:56:36,700 --> 00:56:35,240
freedom in your own in your own process

1236
00:56:39,370 --> 00:56:36,710
of like if you're certainly if you're

1237
00:56:41,290 --> 00:56:39,380
for me as a reporter I mean you know

1238
00:56:45,010 --> 00:56:41,300
they always say there's or there's two

1239
00:56:47,290 --> 00:56:45,020
kinds of authors there's people who

1240
00:56:50,380 --> 00:56:47,300
write about what they've spent their

1241
00:56:52,150 --> 00:56:50,390
life proving and there's people who

1242
00:56:54,430 --> 00:56:52,160
write about what they don't yet know and

1243
00:56:56,290 --> 00:56:54,440
I fall into that second category I mean

1244
00:56:59,350 --> 00:56:56,300
I enter into a subject essentially a

1245
00:57:00,700 --> 00:56:59,360
newcomer and you know with the exception

1246
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:00,710
of having an awareness of the historical

1247
00:57:06,610 --> 00:57:04,610
framework about how war weapons u.s.

1248
00:57:09,610 --> 00:57:06,620
national security and secret-keeping

1249
00:57:11,620 --> 00:57:09,620
works because of my position as a

1250
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:11,630
national security reporter so I have the

1251
00:57:15,790 --> 00:57:14,090
architecture there but whatever subject

1252
00:57:21,310 --> 00:57:15,800
matter I'm entering into whether it's

1253
00:57:25,260 --> 00:57:21,320
area 51 the Nazis DARPA or ESP I don't

1254
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:25,270
come with a you know a preconceived idea

1255
00:57:31,540 --> 00:57:27,770
because I don't come with a with a set

1256
00:57:34,660 --> 00:57:31,550
of you know with a wide berth of

1257
00:57:36,220 --> 00:57:34,670
knowledge in those areas but whenever

1258
00:57:38,860 --> 00:57:36,230
you're talking about a scientific

1259
00:57:40,980 --> 00:57:38,870
skeptic there they have spent it they

1260
00:57:45,250 --> 00:57:40,990
have you know who is specifically

1261
00:57:47,140 --> 00:57:45,260
against this kind of consideration they

1262
00:57:49,900 --> 00:57:47,150
have spent they have an arsenal of

1263
00:57:52,450 --> 00:57:49,910
information at their disposal and

1264
00:57:54,340 --> 00:57:52,460
there's kind of no room for any there's

1265
00:57:56,740 --> 00:57:54,350
no room for any discussion otherwise

1266
00:57:58,060 --> 00:57:56,750
yeah my experience and you bring this up

1267
00:57:59,620 --> 00:57:58,070
in the book too and we'll talk about

1268
00:58:02,410 --> 00:57:59,630
this we need to take a break right here

1269
00:58:04,630 --> 00:58:02,420
but you bring this up in the book I

1270
00:58:08,260 --> 00:58:04,640
think those Puharich I said it but that

1271
00:58:10,810 --> 00:58:08,270
real scientist is still do research

1272
00:58:14,470 --> 00:58:10,820
right it's one of the great points what

1273
00:58:15,970 --> 00:58:14,480
are the great points not only from him

1274
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:15,980
but the way that you wrote it in the

1275
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:17,450
book too as well our guest tonight

1276
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:20,330
Andy Jacobson um when we come back we're

1277
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:22,490
going to start with the origins over in

1278
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:25,370
Germany which is pretty strange and then

1279
00:58:29,260 --> 00:58:26,930
what happened after World War two

1280
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:29,270
leading up through Clark and we'll get

1281
00:58:33,250 --> 00:58:30,770
to today our guest tonight

1282
00:58:35,590 --> 00:58:33,260
Annie Jacobson the book phenomenon this

1283
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:35,600
is fade to black I'll be right back

1284
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:38,690
[Applause]

1285
00:58:45,350 --> 00:58:43,490
[Music]

1286
00:58:47,510 --> 00:58:45,360
this is fade to black

1287
00:58:51,170 --> 00:58:47,520
with Jimmy Church on the game changer

1288
00:59:02,150 --> 00:58:51,180
radio network and kgr a the global radio

1289
00:59:04,630 --> 00:59:02,160
Alliance kgr a radio man Jimmy check on

1290
00:59:07,340 --> 00:59:04,640
you in germanium

1291
00:59:09,140 --> 00:59:07,350
hi this is Ray sobs here repping the

1292
00:59:12,140 --> 00:59:09,150
planet and you're listening to my good

1293
00:59:14,660 --> 00:59:12,150
friend Jimmy Church fade to black

1294
00:59:19,130 --> 00:59:14,670
on the game changer network and the kgr

1295
00:59:21,410 --> 00:59:19,140
a digital broadcast station this is Toby

1296
00:59:24,740 --> 00:59:21,420
Kebbell you're listening to Jimmy Church

1297
00:59:27,620 --> 00:59:24,750
radio.com don't know me Jimmy I'm only

1298
00:59:30,970 --> 00:59:27,630
little am Adrian Grenier this is our

1299
00:59:34,190 --> 00:59:30,980
eagle where the honey brothers was in

1300
00:59:35,630 --> 00:59:34,200
your house oh honey I'm Adrian Grenier

1301
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:35,640
and I'm Ari Gold

1302
00:59:44,060 --> 00:59:38,130
where the honey brothers and you listen

1303
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:44,070
to Jimmy Church revolution what's up

1304
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:47,250
fade or not studio dumb loved fade the

1305
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:50,490
black and f2b audience of so much that

1306
00:59:54,620 --> 00:59:51,810
they have put together the ultimate

1307
00:59:58,100 --> 00:59:54,630
stereo Bluetooth system they've done it

1308
01:00:01,430 --> 00:59:58,110
just for you man check this out

1309
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:01,440
the studio dome SBB two stereo system is

1310
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:04,770
here it's featuring two studio boombox

1311
01:00:10,940 --> 01:00:07,890
to SBB two wireless Bluetooth speakers

1312
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:10,950
pack its own custom hardshell case this

1313
01:00:15,410 --> 01:00:13,050
studio dome system features the very

1314
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:15,420
latest in stereo Bluetooth technology

1315
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:18,570
the two full range boom boxes are in

1316
01:00:22,250 --> 01:00:22,050
true Wireless stereos you've got to hear

1317
01:00:24,530 --> 01:00:22,260
this

1318
01:00:26,350 --> 01:00:24,540
it's amazing it's just a hundred and

1319
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:26,360
twenty nine bucks and use the promo code

1320
01:00:33,350 --> 01:00:30,690
gt-r tws and you'll also get free

1321
01:00:35,900 --> 01:00:33,360
shipping it's simple just go to Jimmy

1322
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:35,910
Church radio.com click on the studio

1323
01:00:44,620 --> 01:00:42,880
balance of nature's fruits and vegies I

1324
01:00:46,750 --> 01:00:44,630
was diagnosed with congestive heart

1325
01:00:49,510 --> 01:00:46,760
failure I went from being able to work

1326
01:00:51,490 --> 01:00:49,520
14 16 hours a day with no problem to

1327
01:00:53,860 --> 01:00:51,500
where I could barely walk a block to the

1328
01:00:55,870 --> 01:00:53,870
store I went on to the phytonutrients

1329
01:00:58,270 --> 01:00:55,880
about six months ago and within a couple

1330
01:01:00,250 --> 01:00:58,280
of months my medical doctor had kept my

1331
01:01:02,500 --> 01:01:00,260
prescriptions down in a little bit

1332
01:01:04,450 --> 01:01:02,510
smaller dosage the next time I went back

1333
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:04,460
the month later I walked into the

1334
01:01:08,740 --> 01:01:07,010
doctor's office he says my gosh what's

1335
01:01:11,050 --> 01:01:08,750
happened to you you don't even look like

1336
01:01:13,030 --> 01:01:11,060
the same person he looked at my legs and

1337
01:01:15,550 --> 01:01:13,040
the swelling gone down my blood pressure

1338
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:15,560
was down the venous stasis ulcers that I

1339
01:01:18,790 --> 01:01:17,450
had had on my legs for the last four or

1340
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:18,800
five years because of the poor

1341
01:01:23,350 --> 01:01:21,170
circulation we're all healed and I'm

1342
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:23,360
feeling far better the new challenge

1343
01:01:26,710 --> 01:01:25,130
will allow you to receive two months of

1344
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:26,720
balance of nature's fruits and veggies

1345
01:01:32,380 --> 01:01:29,210
free and we'll even ship them to you

1346
01:01:34,900 --> 01:01:32,390
free call now for details call 1-800 two

1347
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:34,910
four six eight seven fifty one or go

1348
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:37,850
online to balance of nature calm use

1349
01:01:42,820 --> 01:01:41,210
promo code talk this is Micah Hanks to

1350
01:01:45,310 --> 01:01:42,830
the graylien report and you're listening

1351
01:01:46,990 --> 01:01:45,320
to Jimmy church on fade to black across

1352
01:01:49,690 --> 01:01:47,000
the globe on the GameChanger radio

1353
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:49,700
network and the one and only kgr a radio

1354
01:02:06,310 --> 01:01:51,050
the planet

1355
01:02:13,700 --> 01:02:11,410
[Music]

1356
01:02:16,310 --> 01:02:13,710
welcome back fade to black I'm your host

1357
01:02:20,020 --> 01:02:16,320
Amy Church our guest tonight Annie

1358
01:02:22,460 --> 01:02:20,030
Jacobson her new book phenomenon and

1359
01:02:24,590 --> 01:02:22,470
what I want to do right now any is I

1360
01:02:29,150 --> 01:02:24,600
want to start with the origins of

1361
01:02:32,690 --> 01:02:29,160
everything the Himmler and Hess maybe

1362
01:02:36,170 --> 01:02:32,700
not so much Hitler the historical record

1363
01:02:38,540 --> 01:02:36,180
on this is a bit is is is still in

1364
01:02:43,700 --> 01:02:38,550
question I should say but certainly

1365
01:02:46,010 --> 01:02:43,710
those two were fully engaged in the the

1366
01:02:47,660 --> 01:02:46,020
supernatural and in different

1367
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:47,670
organisations over there they had

1368
01:02:53,930 --> 01:02:50,010
programs in place and we're dictating

1369
01:02:59,180 --> 01:02:53,940
Nazi policy based on the supernatural

1370
01:03:02,180 --> 01:02:59,190
and it caused Rudolf to jump on a plane

1371
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:02,190
one day and fly to England and parachute

1372
01:03:04,970 --> 01:03:04,290
out it's a great story tell us how that

1373
01:03:08,900 --> 01:03:04,980
happened

1374
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:08,910
I mean it's remarkable that has Peary is

1375
01:03:14,090 --> 01:03:11,250
the deputy Fuhrer to Adolf Hitler he's

1376
01:03:17,450 --> 01:03:14,100
number two in command and he's got his

1377
01:03:20,870 --> 01:03:17,460
own personal astrologer and he on the

1378
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:20,880
advice of that astrologer this is part

1379
01:03:26,180 --> 01:03:22,890
of the historical record gets in his

1380
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:26,190
plane and defects to flies to Scotland

1381
01:03:32,750 --> 01:03:28,890
to allegedly try and you know negotiate

1382
01:03:34,370 --> 01:03:32,760
some kind of peace treaty there I'm that

1383
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:34,380
part of it is hazy but the fact that he

1384
01:03:39,620 --> 01:03:36,210
went on the advice of astrologer is

1385
01:03:42,460 --> 01:03:39,630
something that he told Speer later in

1386
01:03:44,300 --> 01:03:42,470
prison you know that he was working

1387
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:44,310
essentially on the advice of the

1388
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:47,250
supernatural I mean this is just a

1389
01:03:53,020 --> 01:03:50,850
remarkable kind of it's not even a

1390
01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:53,030
footnote to history it's just a it's

1391
01:03:58,820 --> 01:03:56,730
it's a placeholder it's astonishing and

1392
01:04:02,630 --> 01:03:58,830
even more interesting I found was that

1393
01:04:05,740 --> 01:04:02,640
Hitler confided to Speer that he was

1394
01:04:09,550 --> 01:04:05,750
enraged by what he knew was some of his

1395
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:09,560
highest-ranking generals or lieutenants

1396
01:04:16,250 --> 01:04:14,370
deputy Fuhrer z-- were engaged in the

1397
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:16,260
occult and he was you know in a great

1398
01:04:21,410 --> 01:04:17,850
quote he says like I thought we'd left

1399
01:04:23,210 --> 01:04:21,420
all this mysticism behind my god we

1400
01:04:27,859 --> 01:04:23,220
should have stayed with the church

1401
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:27,869
and but when when has defected it gave

1402
01:04:34,849 --> 01:04:32,010
Hitler the power he needed to clamp down

1403
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:34,859
on the supernatural and he ordered a

1404
01:04:40,690 --> 01:04:37,650
special action pass it was called and

1405
01:04:43,190 --> 01:04:40,700
all of Germany's astrologers and

1406
01:04:47,839 --> 01:04:43,200
supernaturalists were all rounded up and

1407
01:04:51,770 --> 01:04:47,849
sent to concentration camps Hitler again

1408
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:51,780
what load the supernatural Elmer was

1409
01:04:57,730 --> 01:04:54,210
married to this ideology and even

1410
01:05:01,280 --> 01:04:57,740
continued his work in this world after

1411
01:05:03,620 --> 01:05:01,290
special action has came down and the way

1412
01:05:05,300 --> 01:05:03,630
this is the thing especially with fake

1413
01:05:08,059 --> 01:05:05,310
news today and what we know about

1414
01:05:10,670 --> 01:05:08,069
Project Mockingbird and the CIA and

1415
01:05:14,630 --> 01:05:10,680
propaganda and you know that we live

1416
01:05:18,140 --> 01:05:14,640
with today you you spent many many pages

1417
01:05:22,099 --> 01:05:18,150
in the book laying out of some of the

1418
01:05:25,370 --> 01:05:22,109
most incredible for me you know the pop

1419
01:05:29,329 --> 01:05:25,380
culture war today is fake news right but

1420
01:05:34,190 --> 01:05:29,339
the the governments of Great Britain and

1421
01:05:36,559 --> 01:05:34,200
the United States got got a grip on the

1422
01:05:42,109 --> 01:05:36,569
supernatural element that was going down

1423
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:42,119
in Germany and started propaganda with

1424
01:05:46,220 --> 01:05:44,730
with the supernatural and not only here

1425
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:46,230
in the United States announcing things

1426
01:05:53,210 --> 01:05:48,210
but in Great Britain but we're also

1427
01:05:58,460 --> 01:05:53,220
printing magazines in Germany with fake

1428
01:06:00,859 --> 01:05:58,470
Astro charts and and this it's it's an

1429
01:06:02,359 --> 01:06:00,869
amazing amazing story how did you put

1430
01:06:03,859 --> 01:06:02,369
all of that together you know what maybe

1431
01:06:06,319 --> 01:06:03,869
you should even tell the story a little

1432
01:06:09,050 --> 01:06:06,329
bit better because I have never heard

1433
01:06:10,490 --> 01:06:09,060
this before it was remarkable and what's

1434
01:06:12,050 --> 01:06:10,500
interesting is I was following I'm glad

1435
01:06:13,730 --> 01:06:12,060
you picked up on this and enjoyed this

1436
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:13,740
part of the book as much as I enjoyed

1437
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:15,690
researching and reporting it because I

1438
01:06:21,410 --> 01:06:18,810
was following a thread that you often

1439
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:21,420
hear about the parapsychology programs

1440
01:06:26,390 --> 01:06:23,490
the phenomena program the remote viewing

1441
01:06:28,940 --> 01:06:26,400
programs of the 70s and the 80s in the

1442
01:06:31,099 --> 01:06:28,950
US but you often hear oh these were just

1443
01:06:32,809 --> 01:06:31,109
propaganda programs we weren't really

1444
01:06:34,970 --> 01:06:32,819
doing it we just wanted the Soviets to

1445
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:34,980
think they were well that I found to be

1446
01:06:37,980 --> 01:06:36,130
false we were

1447
01:06:40,380 --> 01:06:37,990
are actually doing this and we were not

1448
01:06:43,350 --> 01:06:40,390
doing that from what I could most

1449
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:43,360
definitely determine from thousands of

1450
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:45,370
pages of declassified CIA and Defense

1451
01:06:49,020 --> 01:06:47,170
Department document this was not a

1452
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:49,030
propaganda campaign in the 70s and 80s

1453
01:06:54,330 --> 01:06:52,290
and 90s this was real research for

1454
01:06:58,920 --> 01:06:54,340
intelligence collection and for

1455
01:07:01,740 --> 01:06:58,930
operational use but backing up to the

1456
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:01,750
early 40s before America even got

1457
01:07:06,390 --> 01:07:03,970
involved in the war I was astonished to

1458
01:07:10,770 --> 01:07:06,400
find this program that you are talking

1459
01:07:12,990 --> 01:07:10,780
about where the British keyed in on the

1460
01:07:15,930 --> 01:07:13,000
Nazis obsession with the occult right

1461
01:07:18,780 --> 01:07:15,940
and decided to launch a propaganda

1462
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:18,790
campaign in America and this was

1463
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:20,890
remarkable where you know where it's

1464
01:07:26,970 --> 01:07:23,530
very timely when you think about what's

1465
01:07:32,130 --> 01:07:26,980
going on today with a foreign power able

1466
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:32,140
to wreak havoc and you know wreak havoc

1467
01:07:38,730 --> 01:07:34,930
when I say that what I mean is had a

1468
01:07:41,940 --> 01:07:38,740
real political goal in mind that was to

1469
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:41,950
get America into the war so backing up

1470
01:07:48,900 --> 01:07:47,050
were in 1941 and we America are still

1471
01:07:51,900 --> 01:07:48,910
isolationist at this point we do not

1472
01:07:55,350 --> 01:07:51,910
want to enter the war and the British

1473
01:07:58,740 --> 01:07:55,360
want American the American military

1474
01:08:01,880 --> 01:07:58,750
machine they want that we they want our

1475
01:08:04,500 --> 01:08:01,890
help and so they send this fellow

1476
01:08:07,050 --> 01:08:04,510
interestingly a committed astrologer

1477
01:08:10,350 --> 01:08:07,060
named Louie de Waal but who was also a

1478
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:10,360
dedicated Brit and they send him to

1479
01:08:17,310 --> 01:08:13,810
America to write a column called Stars

1480
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:17,320
foretell okay and what they start to do

1481
01:08:23,370 --> 01:08:20,050
is they start to feed him propaganda

1482
01:08:25,830 --> 01:08:23,380
meaning they they are feeding him do all

1483
01:08:29,070 --> 01:08:25,840
information which to all which is

1484
01:08:31,470 --> 01:08:29,080
accurate about the Nazis but the wall is

1485
01:08:33,500 --> 01:08:31,480
publishing it in his column as if it's a

1486
01:08:36,090 --> 01:08:33,510
prediction yeah like he's not

1487
01:08:37,350 --> 01:08:36,100
Nostradamus or something yes and they

1488
01:08:39,480 --> 01:08:37,360
start to call him you know the most

1489
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:39,490
Nostradamus of the modern age right but

1490
01:08:45,150 --> 01:08:41,410
there are real consequences which is the

1491
01:08:47,580 --> 01:08:45,160
FCC in America recognizes how popular do

1492
01:08:50,030 --> 01:08:47,590
all is that you know millions of

1493
01:08:53,419 --> 01:08:50,040
Americans are reading his column

1494
01:08:55,700 --> 01:08:53,429
oh my goodness he says Hitler is going

1495
01:08:57,589 --> 01:08:55,710
to do this and three days later Hitler

1496
01:09:00,430 --> 01:08:57,599
does that well that's because there was

1497
01:09:02,510 --> 01:09:00,440
no real-time news in 1941 and the

1498
01:09:04,910 --> 01:09:02,520
British were able to give him the

1499
01:09:06,620 --> 01:09:04,920
information and then the US press would

1500
01:09:08,990 --> 01:09:06,630
catch up on the information three days

1501
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:09,000
later how brilliant how brilliant right

1502
01:09:13,519 --> 01:09:10,770
right right

1503
01:09:18,049 --> 01:09:13,529
and he becomes so popular the FCC lifts

1504
01:09:20,809 --> 01:09:18,059
his ban on letting a astrologer you know

1505
01:09:23,209 --> 01:09:20,819
given give a news report and then we

1506
01:09:25,129 --> 01:09:23,219
find out later meaning now from these

1507
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:25,139
documents I got from the British

1508
01:09:30,019 --> 01:09:27,449
archives that do all and this has been

1509
01:09:32,990 --> 01:09:30,029
reported reported recently as well by

1510
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:33,000
others that do all was in fact an agent

1511
01:09:41,510 --> 01:09:38,130
of mi5 and what he was doing was with

1512
01:09:43,549 --> 01:09:41,520
the knowledge of William Donovan who was

1513
01:09:46,459 --> 01:09:43,559
just at that time setting up the OSS

1514
01:09:47,809 --> 01:09:46,469
which is a precursor to the CIA and with

1515
01:09:49,459 --> 01:09:47,819
the knowledge of the President of the

1516
01:09:53,930 --> 01:09:49,469
United States

1517
01:09:55,700 --> 01:09:53,940
you know unearthing these ideas that

1518
01:09:58,250 --> 01:09:55,710
America might need to enter the war to

1519
01:10:00,530 --> 01:09:58,260
help beat the Nazis and that's exactly

1520
01:10:02,689 --> 01:10:00,540
you know how it rolled out not because

1521
01:10:04,359 --> 01:10:02,699
of the wall but because you know Pearl

1522
01:10:07,220 --> 01:10:04,369
Harbor so fate and circumstance

1523
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:07,230
intervene in a different way but the

1524
01:10:14,770 --> 01:10:10,050
wall was definitely an incredible

1525
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:14,780
example to me of how you can really use

1526
01:10:20,959 --> 01:10:17,570
people's deep convictions about things

1527
01:10:24,350 --> 01:10:20,969
for propaganda purposes yeah and there's

1528
01:10:25,669 --> 01:10:24,360
one other story that you you have in the

1529
01:10:29,060 --> 01:10:25,679
book it blew my mind

1530
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:29,070
where DeWall says I'm paraphrasing here

1531
01:10:33,459 --> 01:10:31,770
you're the author but the wall says in

1532
01:10:35,990 --> 01:10:33,469
his column you know there's a

1533
01:10:39,410 --> 01:10:36,000
high-ranking Nazi is going to go crazy

1534
01:10:43,069 --> 01:10:39,420
in three days it's going to lose the

1535
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:43,079
head three days later boom it happens

1536
01:10:51,080 --> 01:10:46,170
and you know found crazy and then what

1537
01:10:54,319 --> 01:10:51,090
but as it turns out the entire story was

1538
01:10:57,620 --> 01:10:54,329
fake right exactly I mean three days

1539
01:11:01,090 --> 01:10:57,630
later the US reports my god you know a

1540
01:11:02,890 --> 01:11:01,100
Vichy a dictator in the Bahamas

1541
01:11:04,750 --> 01:11:02,900
has gone crazy and needed to be

1542
01:11:07,420 --> 01:11:04,760
restrained by his staff and you find out

1543
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:07,430
later that never even happened never a

1544
01:11:15,250 --> 01:11:11,690
British planted that story in the u.s.

1545
01:11:17,350 --> 01:11:15,260
press because as I write in the book

1546
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:17,360
what was the u.s. press going to do how

1547
01:11:21,220 --> 01:11:19,010
do you fact check something with the

1548
01:11:22,210 --> 01:11:21,230
Third Reich right you can't you can't

1549
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:22,220
you can't

1550
01:11:27,460 --> 01:11:24,170
and and and here we are dealing with

1551
01:11:29,620 --> 01:11:27,470
fake news today right it's this has been

1552
01:11:32,260 --> 01:11:29,630
an art that has been perfected for quite

1553
01:11:35,350 --> 01:11:32,270
a long time this is not a 2016

1554
01:11:37,570 --> 01:11:35,360
phenomenon it's a wonderful reminder of

1555
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:37,580
that isn't it where you realize mm-hmm

1556
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:40,930
this is tradecraft going back decades

1557
01:11:48,430 --> 01:11:45,290
it's anime I read that that was like man

1558
01:11:50,740 --> 01:11:48,440
man man you know and and we're so in

1559
01:11:52,420 --> 01:11:50,750
shock today when it comes to fake news

1560
01:11:54,010 --> 01:11:52,430
Annie right everybody's like I can't

1561
01:11:55,930 --> 01:11:54,020
believe they're doing this to us man we

1562
01:11:57,790 --> 01:11:55,940
can't trust the major we can't even

1563
01:12:00,670 --> 01:11:57,800
trust the fake we can't trust any that

1564
01:12:05,470 --> 01:12:00,680
we you know what it's been going on for

1565
01:12:08,340 --> 01:12:05,480
a long long time you really need to to

1566
01:12:11,170 --> 01:12:08,350
read your news with your eyes squinted

1567
01:12:14,050 --> 01:12:11,180
yes but it does make you wonder because

1568
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:14,060
in this very specific instance you know

1569
01:12:20,580 --> 01:12:17,530
we now know because I am quoting from

1570
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:20,590
Declassified British documents do all's

1571
01:12:30,430 --> 01:12:26,810
handler a very famous British spy named

1572
01:12:32,410 --> 01:12:30,440
Sir William Stephenson I'm quoting him

1573
01:12:34,390 --> 01:12:32,420
sent you know talking to his folks back

1574
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:34,400
in Britain saying you know like and I'm

1575
01:12:37,810 --> 01:12:36,050
paraphrasing course but like well the

1576
01:12:39,490 --> 01:12:37,820
Americans are going for it we're really

1577
01:12:40,810 --> 01:12:39,500
riling them up and getting them you know

1578
01:12:42,250 --> 01:12:40,820
wanting to join the war effort

1579
01:12:44,440 --> 01:12:42,260
that's not exactly what he said but

1580
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:44,450
that's the subtext so but it takes

1581
01:12:51,330 --> 01:12:46,610
decades to learn that and at the time

1582
01:12:54,970 --> 01:12:51,340
you think what who's who's motivation

1583
01:12:57,190 --> 01:12:54,980
should we look at here and and it's a

1584
01:12:59,920 --> 01:12:57,200
it's a it's a it's a it's an interesting

1585
01:13:02,700 --> 01:12:59,930
parable for what you just said about yes

1586
01:13:06,310 --> 01:13:02,710
you must read news with I squinted and

1587
01:13:08,470 --> 01:13:06,320
perhaps we can't really know what the

1588
01:13:11,260 --> 01:13:08,480
motivation is for whoever is the puppet

1589
01:13:11,810 --> 01:13:11,270
master runs on these massive propaganda

1590
01:13:15,470 --> 01:13:11,820
campaign

1591
01:13:18,740 --> 01:13:15,480
until it's already too late so world war

1592
01:13:21,830 --> 01:13:18,750
two ends we go in obviously paperclip

1593
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:21,840
starts to kick off we're looking for you

1594
01:13:26,300 --> 01:13:24,210
know aerospace technology airplane

1595
01:13:29,959 --> 01:13:26,310
technology the rocket of the scientists

1596
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:29,969
the hardware the all of the notes of the

1597
01:13:35,359 --> 01:13:31,530
programs and of course the scientists

1598
01:13:40,100 --> 01:13:35,369
themselves and then we start to uncover

1599
01:13:43,339 --> 01:13:40,110
this supernatural side of Germany and

1600
01:13:47,660 --> 01:13:43,349
the race was on to grab these guys and

1601
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:47,670
gals too as well and and the CIA was

1602
01:13:51,890 --> 01:13:49,770
working from a very interesting premise

1603
01:13:54,890 --> 01:13:51,900
here if we caught two that chase for a

1604
01:13:58,580 --> 01:13:54,900
second sure sure the CIA was almost

1605
01:14:00,850 --> 01:13:58,590
we're talking early 1950s and yes we are

1606
01:14:03,830 --> 01:14:00,860
talking about sub projects with an

1607
01:14:08,109 --> 01:14:03,840
MKULTRA which gets so many people's

1608
01:14:11,270 --> 01:14:08,119
hackles raised up because it has such a

1609
01:14:13,339 --> 01:14:11,280
conspiratorial overtone to it I mean you

1610
01:14:15,950 --> 01:14:13,349
say MKULTRA and many people roll their

1611
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:15,960
eyes and think you know conspiracy but

1612
01:14:21,260 --> 01:14:18,810
in fact as I report in all of my books

1613
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:21,270
there are very serious threads to the

1614
01:14:26,540 --> 01:14:23,730
truth about this program one of which

1615
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:26,550
deals with the occult but the CIA in

1616
01:14:32,330 --> 01:14:31,170
this MKULTRA sub-project 58 the premise

1617
01:14:34,339 --> 01:14:32,340
that they were working from which I

1618
01:14:37,250 --> 01:14:34,349
found fascinating was that okay let's

1619
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:37,260
just accept that ESP exists let sixth

1620
01:14:41,379 --> 01:14:39,210
and when I say extrasensory perception

1621
01:14:45,830 --> 01:14:41,389
take a moment to define that okay it

1622
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:45,840
means getting information from a means

1623
01:14:51,530 --> 01:14:49,170
other than the five known senses so

1624
01:14:55,899 --> 01:14:51,540
knowing the unknowable getting

1625
01:14:59,390 --> 01:14:55,909
information from somewhere else that can

1626
01:15:01,939 --> 01:14:59,400
relate to intelligence collection that's

1627
01:15:05,060 --> 01:15:01,949
what the CIA was after and they began

1628
01:15:10,220 --> 01:15:05,070
working from the premise an old Aztec

1629
01:15:12,379 --> 01:15:10,230
legend that if you give the shaman so

1630
01:15:16,850 --> 01:15:12,389
the person who has extrasensory

1631
01:15:19,790 --> 01:15:16,860
perception or extrasensory powers as the

1632
01:15:21,899 --> 01:15:19,800
local shaman that kind of archetype of a

1633
01:15:25,979 --> 01:15:21,909
person does their

1634
01:15:29,070 --> 01:15:25,989
and you would enhance their powers back

1635
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:29,080
we Aztec legend and specifically what

1636
01:15:38,370 --> 01:15:33,130
you must have is a field mushroom called

1637
01:15:40,740 --> 01:15:38,380
Te'o knock now or God's flesh and it

1638
01:15:43,530 --> 01:15:40,750
grows in Mexico so that's the myth that

1639
01:15:49,709 --> 01:15:43,540
I really could find that was the origin

1640
01:15:54,209 --> 01:15:49,719
story for the CIA's entree like active

1641
01:15:56,820 --> 01:15:54,219
groundwork into the phenomena programs

1642
01:15:59,820 --> 01:15:56,830
of the 50 and that remarkable because

1643
01:16:03,120 --> 01:15:59,830
they really went on a trip no pun

1644
01:16:08,310 --> 01:16:03,130
intended to try and find these mushrooms

1645
01:16:11,189 --> 01:16:08,320
and here we have also ok now we're going

1646
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:11,199
to going to take a step to the right or

1647
01:16:17,490 --> 01:16:12,850
step to the left and get off of the

1648
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:17,500
military side of things and and and and

1649
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:21,610
talk about blue Harwick because and for

1650
01:16:26,430 --> 01:16:23,770
me and it's been discussed many times on

1651
01:16:29,790 --> 01:16:26,440
this show when we are talking about the

1652
01:16:31,890 --> 01:16:29,800
richest most influential industrialist

1653
01:16:34,919 --> 01:16:31,900
families in the United States if not the

1654
01:16:37,890 --> 01:16:34,929
world and nothing like the Northeast

1655
01:16:39,300 --> 01:16:37,900
right of the United States and we're

1656
01:16:44,580 --> 01:16:39,310
talking about the DuPont's and the

1657
01:16:47,729 --> 01:16:44,590
asters the yawns the family of the most

1658
01:16:52,140 --> 01:16:47,739
powerful of the powerful were also free

1659
01:16:55,290 --> 01:16:52,150
thinkers and got involved with who horik

1660
01:16:57,300 --> 01:16:55,300
who was a you know he's a doctor wanting

1661
01:16:58,979 --> 01:16:57,310
to get more and more into science and

1662
01:17:02,610 --> 01:16:58,989
the science of because he had an

1663
01:17:04,610 --> 01:17:02,620
experience when he was a kid of ESP and

1664
01:17:09,030 --> 01:17:04,620
communication and the nervous system and

1665
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:09,040
they start to fund pool Horwich

1666
01:17:14,939 --> 01:17:12,610
with his Institute which eventually

1667
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:14,949
moved into the communication with the

1668
01:17:20,310 --> 01:17:18,010
nine and that's where the CIA turns

1669
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:20,320
around and recognizes what park is doing

1670
01:17:27,060 --> 01:17:24,090
but this actually happened this was a

1671
01:17:28,410 --> 01:17:27,070
turning point and we're not how do I

1672
01:17:30,540 --> 01:17:28,420
want to say this Annie I want to say

1673
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:30,550
this correctly we look at some of the

1674
01:17:34,060 --> 01:17:32,290
industrialists and their families as

1675
01:17:36,819 --> 01:17:34,070
being educated and not

1676
01:17:40,780 --> 01:17:36,829
interested in something like this but

1677
01:17:43,750 --> 01:17:40,790
they truly are and and they look to poo

1678
01:17:45,850 --> 01:17:43,760
Harwick to to put this all together for

1679
01:17:48,399 --> 01:17:45,860
them tell us about that story

1680
01:17:50,500 --> 01:17:48,409
well you're right and I had sort of a

1681
01:17:53,859 --> 01:17:50,510
reporter's lucky break in this arena

1682
01:17:57,669 --> 01:17:53,869
because I was able to locate documents

1683
01:18:00,370 --> 01:17:57,679
in the Library of Congress that tell

1684
01:18:02,979 --> 01:18:00,380
this story documents that I don't

1685
01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:02,989
believe had been read since they you

1686
01:18:06,879 --> 01:18:05,210
know the 1950s I mean you can kind of

1687
01:18:08,530 --> 01:18:06,889
when you get enough experience as a

1688
01:18:10,569 --> 01:18:08,540
reporter of looking in documents in the

1689
01:18:13,419 --> 01:18:10,579
National Archives you can kind of tell

1690
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:13,429
how old piece of paper is and how often

1691
01:18:17,350 --> 01:18:14,690
it's been handled

1692
01:18:20,319 --> 01:18:17,360
based on the way in which it sits in the

1693
01:18:22,300 --> 01:18:20,329
folder and the way in which it's like

1694
01:18:24,069 --> 01:18:22,310
paper clips or staples I mean if you're

1695
01:18:27,609 --> 01:18:24,079
talking about a staple that's rusted and

1696
01:18:29,379 --> 01:18:27,619
has not been removed in 50 60 years it's

1697
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:29,389
a very interesting moment and that's

1698
01:18:33,839 --> 01:18:32,570
what I had in the papers of Marcella

1699
01:18:38,140 --> 01:18:33,849
DuPont

1700
01:18:41,740 --> 01:18:38,150
she kept all of her letters about this

1701
01:18:44,350 --> 01:18:41,750
very esoteric foundation started by

1702
01:18:46,330 --> 01:18:44,360
Andrea Poole horik as you so

1703
01:18:48,250 --> 01:18:46,340
interestingly introduced him who was

1704
01:18:51,850 --> 01:18:48,260
this medical doctor this young medical

1705
01:18:54,910 --> 01:18:51,860
doctor interested in pursuing these very

1706
01:18:57,339 --> 01:18:54,920
esoteric nonconformist ideas about

1707
01:18:59,890 --> 01:18:57,349
extrasensory perception and he caught

1708
01:19:03,609 --> 01:18:59,900
the attention of the sort of error you

1709
01:19:05,830 --> 01:19:03,619
die elites who were professors and

1710
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:05,840
doctors at Harvard and Princeton and

1711
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:08,810
Yale were in nineteen middle nineteen

1712
01:19:14,770 --> 01:19:12,010
like 1946-47 right after the war and

1713
01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:14,780
through his series of lectures at these

1714
01:19:20,140 --> 01:19:17,210
great universities he gets the attention

1715
01:19:23,709 --> 01:19:20,150
of the Astor's the DuPont's the forks

1716
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:23,719
the Borden's who say come with us and

1717
01:19:28,030 --> 01:19:26,449
we'll set you up on this foundation I

1718
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:28,040
mean it's straight out of some kind of a

1719
01:19:32,319 --> 01:19:30,170
storybook except for its nonfiction

1720
01:19:37,270 --> 01:19:32,329
right and they set cou Herrick up in

1721
01:19:40,300 --> 01:19:37,280
this grand seaside mansion in Maine you

1722
01:19:42,970 --> 01:19:40,310
know the thing has 45 rooms and you know

1723
01:19:45,890 --> 01:19:42,980
seven fireplaces and twelve baths and

1724
01:19:48,530 --> 01:19:45,900
turrets and 65 acres and

1725
01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:48,540
and now they're gathering around the

1726
01:19:54,410 --> 01:19:51,050
fireplace at night discussing these

1727
01:19:56,780 --> 01:19:54,420
occult ideas discussing these ideas of

1728
01:20:00,410 --> 01:19:56,790
the supernatural but also discussing

1729
01:20:03,979 --> 01:20:00,420
science and medicine and here you have

1730
01:20:06,860 --> 01:20:03,989
this super interesting merging of the as

1731
01:20:09,380 --> 01:20:06,870
you scent if the super wealthy the rich

1732
01:20:11,810 --> 01:20:09,390
the well-respected and the confidence

1733
01:20:17,540 --> 01:20:11,820
the sort of leading industrialists of

1734
01:20:19,970 --> 01:20:17,550
America deciding to explore this arena

1735
01:20:21,830 --> 01:20:19,980
that begs that really I think sets off

1736
01:20:24,439 --> 01:20:21,840
the whole book of phenomena which is is

1737
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:24,449
this science or is this the supernatural

1738
01:20:31,189 --> 01:20:26,850
and what the round table foundation

1739
01:20:33,979 --> 01:20:31,199
comes to in conclusion is that it's

1740
01:20:35,959 --> 01:20:33,989
supernatural but you have the parallel

1741
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:35,969
story going on that you brought up which

1742
01:20:42,110 --> 01:20:39,570
is that right around the same time the

1743
01:20:45,410 --> 01:20:42,120
CIA and particularly the Pentagon

1744
01:20:48,260 --> 01:20:45,420
becomes interested in Purex work because

1745
01:20:51,830 --> 01:20:48,270
they're tracking all of the individuals

1746
01:20:54,939 --> 01:20:51,840
in America who are working in ESP and

1747
01:20:57,200 --> 01:20:54,949
they court him and get him to come back

1748
01:21:00,169 --> 01:20:57,210
into the military service he had done

1749
01:21:02,419 --> 01:21:00,179
military service during the war and he

1750
01:21:05,540 --> 01:21:02,429
leaves this Enclave where he's got you

1751
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:05,550
know full you know freedom to explore

1752
01:21:11,270 --> 01:21:08,210
these ideas in this incredibly

1753
01:21:14,510 --> 01:21:11,280
intellectual you know fabulously wealthy

1754
01:21:16,610 --> 01:21:14,520
way right and suddenly he's back in the

1755
01:21:20,030 --> 01:21:16,620
world of military bureaucracy at the

1756
01:21:22,310 --> 01:21:20,040
army chemical Center and that's where he

1757
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:22,320
begins the work on the MKULTRA sub

1758
01:21:27,649 --> 01:21:25,530
project 80/50 a program and you know it

1759
01:21:29,630 --> 01:21:27,659
just launches from there it gets so

1760
01:21:32,689 --> 01:21:29,640
dramatic and Phu hark is this

1761
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:32,699
fascinating character because he is he

1762
01:21:38,060 --> 01:21:34,770
becomes kind of a cautionary tale I mean

1763
01:21:42,020 --> 01:21:38,070
he pursues his research to the gates of

1764
01:21:44,570 --> 01:21:42,030
Hell and there was something else I'm

1765
01:21:47,630 --> 01:21:44,580
sure you caught this you didn't bring it

1766
01:21:49,340 --> 01:21:47,640
up in the book but I caught it I want

1767
01:21:51,410 --> 01:21:49,350
your comment don't you think that he

1768
01:21:54,500 --> 01:21:51,420
must have tripped out just a little bit

1769
01:21:57,560 --> 01:21:54,510
that it was the Borden's that were at

1770
01:21:58,900 --> 01:21:57,570
the Harvard lecture and that's who he

1771
01:22:02,140 --> 01:21:58,910
struggled with and she

1772
01:22:05,350 --> 01:22:02,150
I go with his first job right the board

1773
01:22:09,370 --> 01:22:05,360
in the board yes absolutely I mean he

1774
01:22:12,280 --> 01:22:09,380
was a poor immigrant an immigrant I mean

1775
01:22:15,580 --> 01:22:12,290
his father was a stowaway and you know

1776
01:22:18,270 --> 01:22:15,590
his youth is it's so poignant to read

1777
01:22:22,750 --> 01:22:18,280
about because he he was such a brilliant

1778
01:22:25,180 --> 01:22:22,760
determined ambitious young man and when

1779
01:22:27,340 --> 01:22:25,190
he was a poor kid he was a deliverer a

1780
01:22:30,550 --> 01:22:27,350
milk delivery boy he was delivering

1781
01:22:34,570 --> 01:22:30,560
borden milk right I kind of imagine

1782
01:22:36,910 --> 01:22:34,580
these tin cans so 10 bottles of milk

1783
01:22:39,670 --> 01:22:36,920
that he's lugging around the slums of

1784
01:22:42,310 --> 01:22:39,680
Chicago and it is there in one of these

1785
01:22:44,050 --> 01:22:42,320
slums that he's confronted by you know

1786
01:22:47,080 --> 01:22:44,060
what he describes is kind of like a

1787
01:22:50,230 --> 01:22:47,090
sounds like a rabid dog it's about to

1788
01:22:52,090 --> 01:22:50,240
tear him to shreds and according to his

1789
01:22:56,470 --> 01:22:52,100
you know notes and his and his

1790
01:22:58,720 --> 01:22:56,480
recollections he subdued the animal with

1791
01:23:00,310 --> 01:22:58,730
his mind okay that's how he tells the

1792
01:23:01,420 --> 01:23:00,320
story it was like a little boy fairy

1793
01:23:05,230 --> 01:23:01,430
tale

1794
01:23:06,730 --> 01:23:05,240
but it may it stays with him and I think

1795
01:23:09,730 --> 01:23:06,740
you're absolutely right that later in

1796
01:23:12,010 --> 01:23:09,740
his life when he's courted by one of the

1797
01:23:12,790 --> 01:23:12,020
Borden's this extraordinarily wealthy

1798
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:12,800
woman

1799
01:23:17,680 --> 01:23:15,530
who is fascinated with his ideas and

1800
01:23:19,900 --> 01:23:17,690
says let me pay for your research

1801
01:23:22,450 --> 01:23:19,910
there's this there's this interesting

1802
01:23:25,300 --> 01:23:22,460
kind of moment where you can't help but

1803
01:23:28,150 --> 01:23:25,310
wonder like is he making a connection

1804
01:23:30,370 --> 01:23:28,160
that is there making a connection what

1805
01:23:32,440 --> 01:23:30,380
that wasn't there he had to incur it you

1806
01:23:34,090 --> 01:23:32,450
know if I was in that position you would

1807
01:23:37,150 --> 01:23:34,100
have done the same thing I would have

1808
01:23:39,130 --> 01:23:37,160
said to Joyce Joyce bored you know I

1809
01:23:41,890 --> 01:23:39,140
used to work for you guys it's kind of

1810
01:23:44,820 --> 01:23:41,900
trippy that you're here at Harvard you

1811
01:23:48,160 --> 01:23:44,830
know this one meant officially yeah yeah

1812
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:48,170
exactly and and so that because he was

1813
01:23:51,820 --> 01:23:50,330
fostering these ideas of the

1814
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:51,830
supernatural and that there was that

1815
01:23:56,920 --> 01:23:54,170
there's a higher force at work bingo

1816
01:23:58,870 --> 01:23:56,930
he was able to see that I think is what

1817
01:24:00,400 --> 01:23:58,880
the read is we don't know because in his

1818
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:00,410
notes although I looked at so many of

1819
01:24:05,470 --> 01:24:03,410
his his handwritten notes you know

1820
01:24:06,970 --> 01:24:05,480
that's what's implicit that's what

1821
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:06,980
suggested and that's very interesting to

1822
01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:09,050
me from a character standpoint it

1823
01:24:12,419 --> 01:24:11,210
reinforces what he's what he's been

1824
01:24:15,209 --> 01:24:12,429
suspecting

1825
01:24:17,100 --> 01:24:15,219
yes it becomes his my aside bias right

1826
01:24:20,010 --> 01:24:17,110
like this is all destined this is all

1827
01:24:22,380 --> 01:24:20,020
predetermined 100% my side biased that

1828
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:22,390
that's exactly it and then so he

1829
01:24:26,910 --> 01:24:24,610
couldn't ignore it and a must have sent

1830
01:24:29,070 --> 01:24:26,920
him the signals at that point especially

1831
01:24:30,709 --> 01:24:29,080
so early on that you know what there's

1832
01:24:33,660 --> 01:24:30,719
something to this I'm on the right path

1833
01:24:35,459 --> 01:24:33,670
these people were sent here to help me

1834
01:24:39,120 --> 01:24:35,469
and there's a reason for this it's a

1835
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:39,130
sign exactly exactly and then he began

1836
01:24:46,169 --> 01:24:41,770
looking for everything signs and symbols

1837
01:24:50,010 --> 01:24:46,179
and everything to you know support his

1838
01:24:52,350 --> 01:24:50,020
theories and then when when you know the

1839
01:24:54,149 --> 01:24:52,360
merging of this story with the CIA on

1840
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:54,159
the hunt for this field mushroom that

1841
01:24:57,899 --> 01:24:56,170
the hallucinogenic mushrooms run and rim

1842
01:25:02,720 --> 01:24:57,909
you know you have to remind yourself

1843
01:25:05,580 --> 01:25:02,730
here with this is 1953 and the

1844
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:05,590
hallucinogenic mushroom that we all know

1845
01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:07,810
of now this did not exist this was not

1846
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:09,850
known I mean it certainly existed out in

1847
01:25:15,570 --> 01:25:11,890
nature but it was not known to the

1848
01:25:18,510 --> 01:25:15,580
scientific community in America and here

1849
01:25:20,910 --> 01:25:18,520
is aundrea Park on a quest to find it

1850
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:20,920
you know from civilian literature he's

1851
01:25:26,280 --> 01:25:23,650
reading and the CIA with all its might

1852
01:25:28,470 --> 01:25:26,290
and power and persuasion and money is on

1853
01:25:30,689 --> 01:25:28,480
that same quest and they can't find it

1854
01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:30,699
and they realize that Quahog is closer

1855
01:25:37,169 --> 01:25:32,890
to finding it than they are and they

1856
01:25:40,140 --> 01:25:37,179
kind of use him to get the mushroom and

1857
01:25:42,149 --> 01:25:40,150
it's just such a and he feels betrayed

1858
01:25:44,910 --> 01:25:42,159
I mean it's like you can't make this up

1859
01:25:47,700 --> 01:25:44,920
this is these are these archetypes of

1860
01:25:52,110 --> 01:25:47,710
human drive and passion and betrayal

1861
01:25:53,910 --> 01:25:52,120
that I found so fascinating in all

1862
01:25:58,649 --> 01:25:53,920
rolled up in this character of Andrzej

1863
01:26:00,959 --> 01:25:58,659
alcoholic now when we come back the the

1864
01:26:06,810 --> 01:26:00,969
the gentlemen that what's the name

1865
01:26:08,370 --> 01:26:06,820
starts with a be that did channeled yes

1866
01:26:11,780 --> 01:26:08,380
we're going to talk about that because

1867
01:26:14,130 --> 01:26:11,790
that that and the nine at what went down

1868
01:26:15,540 --> 01:26:14,140
especially in our little circle of

1869
01:26:17,790 --> 01:26:15,550
ufology

1870
01:26:20,490 --> 01:26:17,800
and so forth was a turning point in

1871
01:26:22,919 --> 01:26:20,500
history but here you know once again is

1872
01:26:25,379 --> 01:26:22,929
is blue horik and the nine and all of

1873
01:26:27,359 --> 01:26:25,389
these industrialists sit down and

1874
01:26:29,820 --> 01:26:27,369
this seance and it's a pretty crazy

1875
01:26:34,669 --> 01:26:29,830
event and then we'll jump into the CIA

1876
01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:36,689
Jacobs it

1877
01:26:42,689 --> 01:26:38,770
fade to black I'm your host Jimmy church

1878
01:26:45,359 --> 01:26:42,699
the new book is phenomenon and the the

1879
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:45,369
magic mushroom this is a very serious

1880
01:26:50,820 --> 01:26:48,610
point we know about it today we really

1881
01:26:53,580 --> 01:26:50,830
honestly didn't know about it then it

1882
01:26:55,109 --> 01:26:53,590
was a myth and we had to go and find it

1883
01:27:06,930 --> 01:26:55,119
we'll talk about all of that when we

1884
01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:06,940
come back stay with us well out here we

1885
01:27:11,510 --> 01:27:09,730
listen to Jimmy Church you're listening

1886
01:27:13,740 --> 01:27:11,520
to fade to black

1887
01:27:16,590 --> 01:27:13,750
always on the edge of the hottest

1888
01:27:17,100 --> 01:27:16,600
alternative talk jimmy church with fade

1889
01:27:25,140 --> 01:27:17,110
to black

1890
01:27:26,820 --> 01:27:25,150
k GRA radio.com Mario comes Annette

1891
01:27:28,530 --> 01:27:26,830
people on yellow see peanut butter kiss

1892
01:27:32,890 --> 01:27:28,540
which every one of you Jimmy charge

1893
01:27:38,690 --> 01:27:35,900
hey there quick question for you would

1894
01:27:40,970 --> 01:27:38,700
you be ok with more energy more

1895
01:27:43,190 --> 01:27:40,980
endurance thicker healthier hair a

1896
01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:43,200
better mood reduced appearance of

1897
01:27:47,210 --> 01:27:45,810
wrinkles improved sleep improved blood

1898
01:27:50,480 --> 01:27:47,220
pressure and cholesterol profiles

1899
01:27:52,280 --> 01:27:50,490
improved vision improved memory okay

1900
01:27:54,350 --> 01:27:52,290
then well now have you heard of nature's

1901
01:27:56,990 --> 01:27:54,360
youth RSS it's from the anti-aging

1902
01:27:59,270 --> 01:27:57,000
experts at nature's youth calm nature's

1903
01:28:01,040 --> 01:27:59,280
youth calm see it nature's youth they

1904
01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:01,050
understand exactly what it means to

1905
01:28:05,330 --> 01:28:03,290
provide top quality health products and

1906
01:28:06,950 --> 01:28:05,340
nature's youth customers not only

1907
01:28:08,570 --> 01:28:06,960
improve their health they know they're

1908
01:28:10,400 --> 01:28:08,580
also providing their body with the right

1909
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:10,410
nourishment to maintain that peak

1910
01:28:14,450 --> 01:28:12,090
performance and fight the aging process

1911
01:28:15,410 --> 01:28:14,460
if health wellness and nutrition are

1912
01:28:18,290 --> 01:28:15,420
what you desire

1913
01:28:20,180 --> 01:28:18,300
choose nature's youth RSF I did you see

1914
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:20,190
you're going to get older it's just up

1915
01:28:22,820 --> 01:28:21,570
to you how you feel when you get there

1916
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:22,830
get started today

1917
01:28:28,310 --> 01:28:26,130
nature's youth RSF simple to use simple

1918
01:28:30,980 --> 01:28:28,320
to order go to nature's youth calm

1919
01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:30,990
that's nature's youth calm nature's

1920
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:33,570
youth calm I was introduced to this

1921
01:28:37,490 --> 01:28:35,610
remarkable product balance of nature

1922
01:28:39,860 --> 01:28:37,500
fruits and veggies and to say it's

1923
01:28:41,780 --> 01:28:39,870
amazing is an understatement balance of

1924
01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:41,790
nature provides the nutrients of 9 to 11

1925
01:28:46,910 --> 01:28:44,970
servings of 31 different whole ripened

1926
01:28:49,130 --> 01:28:46,920
fruits and veggies per day and the cost

1927
01:28:51,410 --> 01:28:49,140
to the consumer for 9 to 11 servings is

1928
01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:51,420
about 22 cents per serving as opposed to

1929
01:28:55,490 --> 01:28:53,970
over a dollar in the store balance of

1930
01:28:57,290 --> 01:28:55,500
nature fruits and veggies helps boost

1931
01:28:59,900 --> 01:28:57,300
the immune system by over seven hundred

1932
01:29:02,210 --> 01:28:59,910
and twenty percent and they also provide

1933
01:29:03,980 --> 01:29:02,220
a health coach for you at no charge to

1934
01:29:05,630 --> 01:29:03,990
guide you with any questions you may

1935
01:29:07,580 --> 01:29:05,640
have and you can also visit their

1936
01:29:09,620 --> 01:29:07,590
website for testimonials on balance of

1937
01:29:11,900 --> 01:29:09,630
nature calm so take steps to give

1938
01:29:15,230 --> 01:29:11,910
yourself better overall health and call

1939
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:15,240
them now toll free at 802 for six eight

1940
01:29:21,020 --> 01:29:18,210
seven five one that's 800 two four six

1941
01:29:23,150 --> 01:29:21,030
eight seven five one or go to balance of

1942
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:23,160
nature calm right now make sure to let

1943
01:29:26,900 --> 01:29:24,570
them know you heard it here by using

1944
01:29:29,480 --> 01:29:26,910
promo code talk for a special discount

1945
01:29:34,610 --> 01:29:29,490
that's balance of nature calm and use

1946
01:29:35,570 --> 01:29:34,620
promo code talk you are listening to

1947
01:29:39,850 --> 01:29:35,580
fade to black

1948
01:29:43,550 --> 01:29:39,860
with ginger on the game changing Network

1949
01:29:46,330 --> 01:29:43,560
hi I'm Lisa Vance you're listening to me

1950
01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:46,340
church this is revolution the revolution

1951
01:29:55,970 --> 01:29:49,890
will not be televised the revolution is

1952
01:29:55,980 --> 01:30:33,689
[Music]

1953
01:30:37,959 --> 01:30:35,560
all right welcome back

1954
01:30:39,490 --> 01:30:37,969
fade to black our guest tonight Andy

1955
01:30:41,350 --> 01:30:39,500
Jacobson I'm your host Amy Church we're

1956
01:30:43,810 --> 01:30:41,360
talking about her new book phenomenon it

1957
01:30:47,979 --> 01:30:43,820
is an amazing read let's go to annie

1958
01:30:50,379 --> 01:30:47,989
Jacobs Annie Jacobson comm go and get

1959
01:30:53,140 --> 01:30:50,389
the book highly recommended

1960
01:30:55,629 --> 01:30:53,150
Annie before we get to that and the

1961
01:30:57,399 --> 01:30:55,639
magic mushroom drawings that happened

1962
01:31:01,840 --> 01:30:57,409
which were pretty fascinating too as

1963
01:31:04,810 --> 01:31:01,850
well there there's one thing one story

1964
01:31:08,439 --> 01:31:04,820
that that stuck out in the entire book

1965
01:31:12,010 --> 01:31:08,449
that absolutely blew my mind and it's

1966
01:31:14,110 --> 01:31:12,020
the it's the story the case where Clarke

1967
01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:14,120
wanted to find somebody that was hearing

1968
01:31:20,020 --> 01:31:16,489
voices in their head he finds a

1969
01:31:22,270 --> 01:31:20,030
machinist at Bellevue Hospital that was

1970
01:31:25,810 --> 01:31:22,280
there because he was hearing voices in

1971
01:31:28,959 --> 01:31:25,820
his head now if for we get to that do

1972
01:31:29,830 --> 01:31:28,969
you remember the episode of Gilligan's

1973
01:31:33,250 --> 01:31:29,840
Island

1974
01:31:36,910 --> 01:31:33,260
when Gilligan was hearing radio stations

1975
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:36,920
with through his teeth no okay well it's

1976
01:31:43,379 --> 01:31:38,690
a famous episode of Gilligan's Island

1977
01:31:46,629 --> 01:31:43,389
and and so he would get news reports

1978
01:31:50,010 --> 01:31:46,639
through his teeth right but this

1979
01:31:53,439 --> 01:31:50,020
actually happened that's the crazy I

1980
01:31:54,070 --> 01:31:53,449
read this and I just could not believe

1981
01:31:56,709 --> 01:31:54,080
it

1982
01:31:58,780 --> 01:31:56,719
tell us what happened the II they find

1983
01:32:00,310 --> 01:31:58,790
this mission said Belle I love this yes

1984
01:32:03,070 --> 01:32:00,320
I love this because it speaks to the

1985
01:32:06,850 --> 01:32:03,080
idea that who hurich was not all like

1986
01:32:09,610 --> 01:32:06,860
esoteric supernatural you know concepts

1987
01:32:13,860 --> 01:32:09,620
I mean he was really grounded at least

1988
01:32:17,500 --> 01:32:13,870
originally in scientific research and

1989
01:32:20,470 --> 01:32:17,510
groundbreaking ideas about perception

1990
01:32:25,300 --> 01:32:20,480
and point of view and hearing things so

1991
01:32:27,459 --> 01:32:25,310
what he wondered if if humans could

1992
01:32:29,350 --> 01:32:27,469
certain people could hear things on

1993
01:32:32,590 --> 01:32:29,360
different frequencies he was following

1994
01:32:36,259 --> 01:32:32,600
this idea to try and prove some of his

1995
01:32:40,790 --> 01:32:36,269
theories about how ESP might work

1996
01:32:42,229 --> 01:32:40,800
and he reached out to a very famous you

1997
01:32:44,509 --> 01:32:42,239
know friend and colleague named Warren

1998
01:32:46,819 --> 01:32:44,519
McCulloch who's also you know has lots

1999
01:32:48,910 --> 01:32:46,829
of conspiracies around him for many

2000
01:32:51,470 --> 01:32:48,920
reasons because he was a very powerful

2001
01:32:56,629 --> 01:32:51,480
establishment scientist and the CIA

2002
01:32:58,580 --> 01:32:56,639
asset and he asked any end Macola worked

2003
01:33:02,029 --> 01:32:58,590
at Bellevue and he said can you find as

2004
01:33:03,709 --> 01:33:02,039
a patient who is hearing voices but who

2005
01:33:04,250 --> 01:33:03,719
does not have a history of mental

2006
01:33:06,939 --> 01:33:04,260
illness

2007
01:33:10,160 --> 01:33:06,949
okay so they wanted kind of like a

2008
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:10,170
one-time weirdo let's say right a

2009
01:33:16,330 --> 01:33:13,050
one-time psycho and they wanted to seed

2010
01:33:20,419 --> 01:33:16,340
and they took him in and they began to

2011
01:33:23,660 --> 01:33:20,429
interview him and they found out that he

2012
01:33:26,810 --> 01:33:23,670
was a machinist and he was hearing these

2013
01:33:30,410 --> 01:33:26,820
voices and their theory was that somehow

2014
01:33:35,419 --> 01:33:30,420
the carborundum dust that was in his

2015
01:33:37,580 --> 01:33:35,429
mouth was acting like a like a crystal

2016
01:33:40,910 --> 01:33:37,590
rectifier from the old crystal radio

2017
01:33:43,989 --> 01:33:40,920
sets of the 1920s okay and this was I

2018
01:33:47,000 --> 01:33:43,999
mean it's such a far-out theory but they

2019
01:33:48,560 --> 01:33:47,010
took the man into their custody they

2020
01:33:50,359 --> 01:33:48,570
looked at him they interviewed him the

2021
01:33:53,839 --> 01:33:50,369
cream is tea this is a short version of

2022
01:33:56,209 --> 01:33:53,849
it and he was suddenly secured of his

2023
01:33:57,680 --> 01:33:56,219
psychiatric problem so they determined

2024
01:34:01,370 --> 01:33:57,690
that he was never crazy to begin with he

2025
01:34:06,020 --> 01:34:01,380
wasn't hearing voices he had tuned in to

2026
01:34:08,509 --> 01:34:06,030
a New York City radio station wor one of

2027
01:34:11,209 --> 01:34:08,519
the most famous train stations a planet

2028
01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:11,219
Earth and it just so happened his teeth

2029
01:34:17,060 --> 01:34:15,090
were tuned to the radio station so he

2030
01:34:18,589 --> 01:34:17,070
went you would you mind that you have

2031
01:34:19,790 --> 01:34:18,599
ever look readers have every reason

2032
01:34:22,609 --> 01:34:19,800
because they will that's an apocryphal

2033
01:34:27,109 --> 01:34:22,619
story I'm talking about declassified

2034
01:34:29,330 --> 01:34:27,119
documents from McCullough that is from

2035
01:34:31,790 --> 01:34:29,340
the American Physical Society when the

2036
01:34:33,589 --> 01:34:31,800
CIA later was working on Pooh horik

2037
01:34:35,720 --> 01:34:33,599
we're looking into him and they wanted

2038
01:34:38,600 --> 01:34:35,730
to know about his background and makalah

2039
01:34:41,000 --> 01:34:38,610
you know represented this story to be

2040
01:34:42,919 --> 01:34:41,010
absolutely true and was astonished by it

2041
01:34:45,410 --> 01:34:42,929
like his point was look this guy may

2042
01:34:47,629 --> 01:34:45,420
have some wild and aberrant ideas but

2043
01:34:49,709 --> 01:34:47,639
he's also a really you know cutting-edge

2044
01:34:52,220 --> 01:34:49,719
pioneer in terms of

2045
01:34:54,479 --> 01:34:52,230
medical research could you imagine

2046
01:34:56,340 --> 01:34:54,489
hearing voices in your head

2047
01:34:59,040 --> 01:34:56,350
and you're trying to don't know if you

2048
01:35:01,770 --> 01:34:59,050
want to admit to it but you finally do

2049
01:35:05,490 --> 01:35:01,780
and you're told that you're crazy when

2050
01:35:07,590 --> 01:35:05,500
in reality you really were hearing

2051
01:35:09,689 --> 01:35:07,600
voices in your head I made it right

2052
01:35:13,590 --> 01:35:09,699
doesn't spark the kind of thing again

2053
01:35:15,060 --> 01:35:13,600
you know that I try I write stories like

2054
01:35:16,260 --> 01:35:15,070
that I weave them into the narrative and

2055
01:35:19,860 --> 01:35:16,270
I certainly weave them throughout

2056
01:35:21,540 --> 01:35:19,870
phenomena perhaps thinking well the

2057
01:35:23,340 --> 01:35:21,550
scientific skeptics are going to want to

2058
01:35:26,550 --> 01:35:23,350
talk about that and have a point to say

2059
01:35:28,920 --> 01:35:26,560
well okay so on balance I see but no

2060
01:35:31,170 --> 01:35:28,930
those stories always get cast by the

2061
01:35:33,810 --> 01:35:31,180
wayside and I find that troublesome

2062
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:33,820
because I do think it's important you

2063
01:35:39,650 --> 01:35:36,850
know for as many people that you know

2064
01:35:42,900 --> 01:35:39,660
are interested in Park for his

2065
01:35:44,850 --> 01:35:42,910
supernatural ideas that you could also

2066
01:35:49,110 --> 01:35:44,860
be really interested in Park for his

2067
01:35:53,010 --> 01:35:49,120
very grounded funny word choice here you

2068
01:35:55,320 --> 01:35:53,020
know medical pioneering medical work

2069
01:35:56,939 --> 01:35:55,330
that he did and that is not the only

2070
01:35:58,470 --> 01:35:56,949
story I don't book I mean he did another

2071
01:36:01,640 --> 01:35:58,480
thing with the Atomic Energy Commission

2072
01:36:04,020 --> 01:36:01,650
again stories pulled right out of

2073
01:36:06,780 --> 01:36:04,030
Declassified Atomic Energy Commission

2074
01:36:12,180 --> 01:36:06,790
documents where he did a similar study

2075
01:36:14,550 --> 01:36:12,190
with deaf women that he was able to give

2076
01:36:18,240 --> 01:36:14,560
them the ability to hear in certain

2077
01:36:21,120 --> 01:36:18,250
situations yeah it was that that was

2078
01:36:24,360 --> 01:36:21,130
another everybody that the book is full

2079
01:36:27,570 --> 01:36:24,370
of evidence of stories like this

2080
01:36:31,260 --> 01:36:27,580
absolutely incredible and that even that

2081
01:36:33,060 --> 01:36:31,270
which ended up you know it was a medical

2082
01:36:34,560 --> 01:36:33,070
procedure that is performed today you

2083
01:36:35,820 --> 01:36:34,570
know there's helped millions and

2084
01:36:37,979 --> 01:36:35,830
millions and millions of people around

2085
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:37,989
the world get their hearing back but it

2086
01:36:42,709 --> 01:36:38,890
was an accident

2087
01:36:46,350 --> 01:36:42,719
right yeah yeah absolutely incredible so

2088
01:36:49,680 --> 01:36:46,360
back to the heart so the the search for

2089
01:36:52,890 --> 01:36:49,690
this magic mushroom was on again it was

2090
01:36:54,600 --> 01:36:52,900
part they were chasing a myth right the

2091
01:36:57,750 --> 01:36:54,610
CIA and the government they're trying to

2092
01:37:00,750 --> 01:36:57,760
find a truth serum that we evolved you

2093
01:37:02,219 --> 01:37:00,760
know read about and over the years but

2094
01:37:05,100 --> 01:37:02,229
they're trying to find this and

2095
01:37:07,169 --> 01:37:05,110
the this magic mushroom thing it's funny

2096
01:37:10,949 --> 01:37:07,179
because today it's like everywhere but

2097
01:37:12,719 --> 01:37:10,959
back then they truly could not find it

2098
01:37:14,910 --> 01:37:12,729
and they kept going back to the city of

2099
01:37:17,759 --> 01:37:14,920
Mexico trying to chase down witch

2100
01:37:22,500 --> 01:37:17,769
doctors and shamans and and trying to

2101
01:37:25,379 --> 01:37:22,510
get to this elusive mushroom but poo

2102
01:37:27,779 --> 01:37:25,389
Harwick has this channeling session with

2103
01:37:30,600 --> 01:37:27,789
somebody that that goes back to ancient

2104
01:37:32,339 --> 01:37:30,610
Egypt with hieroglyphs and the drawing

2105
01:37:35,040 --> 01:37:32,349
of the mushrooms with the little round

2106
01:37:37,969 --> 01:37:35,050
circles on the top I mean the whole

2107
01:37:43,109 --> 01:37:37,979
thing is so fantastical if it wasn't

2108
01:37:45,830 --> 01:37:43,119
related if I hadn't been able to find

2109
01:37:50,580 --> 01:37:45,840
these crazy stories and then actually

2110
01:37:52,799 --> 01:37:50,590
reference them in declassified CIA and

2111
01:37:55,649 --> 01:37:52,809
Defense Department documents you would

2112
01:37:58,049 --> 01:37:55,659
toss them out as fantasy as made-up

2113
01:38:00,419 --> 01:37:58,059
right but and there are certain things

2114
01:38:03,899 --> 01:38:00,429
are in explainable like how on earth

2115
01:38:06,120 --> 01:38:03,909
that you know medium who happened to be

2116
01:38:08,609 --> 01:38:06,130
in a dinner party gasps of Alice aster

2117
01:38:12,180 --> 01:38:08,619
one of the wealthiest women in America

2118
01:38:15,120 --> 01:38:12,190
at a time you know and he goes into this

2119
01:38:17,040 --> 01:38:15,130
trance and in this trance he draws out

2120
01:38:19,589 --> 01:38:17,050
what is a magic mushroom I mean it's not

2121
01:38:22,949 --> 01:38:19,599
too hard to draw but he essentially

2122
01:38:27,209 --> 01:38:22,959
gives a recipe for how this is supposed

2123
01:38:30,149 --> 01:38:27,219
to be taken in you know ingested to give

2124
01:38:34,709 --> 01:38:30,159
you these divinatory powers and again

2125
01:38:37,469 --> 01:38:34,719
Puharich sees this as evidence that he

2126
01:38:40,890 --> 01:38:37,479
is on the right path that his quest is

2127
01:38:44,370 --> 01:38:40,900
you know predestined or preordained and

2128
01:38:48,209 --> 01:38:44,380
it just becomes this interesting weaving

2129
01:38:53,399 --> 01:38:48,219
of fact and fantasy which winds up with

2130
01:38:55,350 --> 01:38:53,409
Puharich you know getting hold of these

2131
01:38:57,629 --> 01:38:55,360
magic mushrooms right around the same

2132
01:39:00,180 --> 01:38:57,639
time as the CIA gets ahold of them they

2133
01:39:02,580 --> 01:39:00,190
have this dramatic parting of ways who

2134
01:39:05,270 --> 01:39:02,590
are a quits military life because he

2135
01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:05,280
just wants to be back in that gorgeous

2136
01:39:11,219 --> 01:39:09,010
seaside mansion in Maine doing as he

2137
01:39:14,339 --> 01:39:11,229
wants to do and at that point he begins

2138
01:39:15,600 --> 01:39:14,349
to take a lot of drugs and again that's

2139
01:39:18,150 --> 01:39:15,610
from his own doc in

2140
01:39:21,390 --> 01:39:18,160
so we're not speculating here he decides

2141
01:39:23,910 --> 01:39:21,400
to use himself as the control that's how

2142
01:39:25,320 --> 01:39:23,920
he describes it so he's got psychics up

2143
01:39:27,150 --> 01:39:25,330
there at the mansion and he's got all

2144
01:39:28,860 --> 01:39:27,160
these laboratory assistants and they're

2145
01:39:32,130 --> 01:39:28,870
trying to see if it's true if the myth

2146
01:39:34,020 --> 01:39:32,140
is true if if this gods flesh must

2147
01:39:36,630 --> 01:39:34,030
mushroom will enhance the dignitary

2148
01:39:41,870 --> 01:39:36,640
powers but first he takes the drugs

2149
01:39:45,120 --> 01:39:41,880
himself to see how they work in a non

2150
01:39:48,900 --> 01:39:45,130
shaman type person and you get the sense

2151
01:39:50,340 --> 01:39:48,910
that you know pardon the expression he

2152
01:39:52,910 --> 01:39:50,350
gets a little too high on his own supply

2153
01:39:56,250 --> 01:39:52,920
right right right do you think that

2154
01:39:59,730 --> 01:39:56,260
certainly through the research that he

2155
01:40:01,290 --> 01:39:59,740
went from he lived almost two lives you

2156
01:40:04,770 --> 01:40:01,300
can almost draw a line right there where

2157
01:40:06,810 --> 01:40:04,780
he changed you know he was running with

2158
01:40:09,330 --> 01:40:06,820
the upper crust of America in one life

2159
01:40:12,990 --> 01:40:09,340
and then the next life he just turned

2160
01:40:15,870 --> 01:40:13,000
the page and maybe he just liked getting

2161
01:40:17,610 --> 01:40:15,880
high deeply I love I love the way you

2162
01:40:20,970 --> 01:40:17,620
describe that it really is like turning

2163
01:40:23,310 --> 01:40:20,980
the page and it made me wonder did did

2164
01:40:26,160 --> 01:40:23,320
they turn the page you know we can't

2165
01:40:30,660 --> 01:40:26,170
know I mean Alice asked her was his

2166
01:40:32,910 --> 01:40:30,670
primary beneficiary her father was John

2167
01:40:35,400 --> 01:40:32,920
Jacob Astor the wealthiest man in

2168
01:40:38,070 --> 01:40:35,410
America who went down in the Titanic and

2169
01:40:41,220 --> 01:40:38,080
he left his daughter Alice you know

2170
01:40:43,380 --> 01:40:41,230
millions of dollars and that was an

2171
01:40:47,640 --> 01:40:43,390
extraordinary amount of money then and

2172
01:40:51,650 --> 01:40:47,650
at and Alice Astor was parks primary

2173
01:40:54,900 --> 01:40:51,660
benefactor and she kind of abruptly died

2174
01:40:57,330 --> 01:40:54,910
right in the middle of parks hey des

2175
01:41:01,740 --> 01:40:57,340
with the mushrooms and the psychics and

2176
01:41:04,140 --> 01:41:01,750
I get this I got the sense that that

2177
01:41:08,250 --> 01:41:04,150
when the funds dried up there was a real

2178
01:41:09,630 --> 01:41:08,260
shift inside him but I'm not so sure as

2179
01:41:14,130 --> 01:41:09,640
I write in the book because I report

2180
01:41:16,590 --> 01:41:14,140
that and again I had access to the

2181
01:41:18,240 --> 01:41:16,600
documents about some of the financial

2182
01:41:20,490 --> 01:41:18,250
documents that were found that I found

2183
01:41:21,780 --> 01:41:20,500
in the library of congress and he begins

2184
01:41:24,150 --> 01:41:21,790
to get money again from another

2185
01:41:26,190 --> 01:41:24,160
mysterious source so I think it's a

2186
01:41:28,680 --> 01:41:26,200
great question you ask did he turn the

2187
01:41:31,500 --> 01:41:28,690
page or did was the page turned on

2188
01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:31,510
and but either way you can really see a

2189
01:41:36,630 --> 01:41:34,570
pivot in his life from and it really

2190
01:41:39,810 --> 01:41:36,640
goes like this I mean when he started as

2191
01:41:41,340 --> 01:41:39,820
a medical doctor in the 40s and when he

2192
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:41,350
was giving those lectures at Harvard and

2193
01:41:48,150 --> 01:41:44,010
Princeton Yale he was on a quest to know

2194
01:41:51,330 --> 01:41:48,160
what this mysterious unknown energy

2195
01:41:55,370 --> 01:41:51,340
force inside the human body I mean the

2196
01:41:59,280 --> 01:41:55,380
force of life if you will okay what that

2197
01:42:03,510 --> 01:41:59,290
was and he believed initially that it

2198
01:42:05,880 --> 01:42:03,520
was a force from within and over the

2199
01:42:08,910 --> 01:42:05,890
next decade with these experiences at

2200
01:42:11,520 --> 01:42:08,920
the roundtable foundation he shifted his

2201
01:42:15,360 --> 01:42:11,530
position from that it was a force from

2202
01:42:19,170 --> 01:42:15,370
within to this is a force from without

2203
01:42:23,100 --> 01:42:19,180
this is a supernatural force and that is

2204
01:42:24,930 --> 01:42:23,110
where he begins a new trajectory from

2205
01:42:27,360 --> 01:42:24,940
which he would never return never

2206
01:42:32,190 --> 01:42:27,370
returned and to be clear for the

2207
01:42:35,280 --> 01:42:32,200
audience who harks original research was

2208
01:42:37,110 --> 01:42:35,290
based on our nervous system and the way

2209
01:42:39,150 --> 01:42:37,120
that it operated with the brain and he

2210
01:42:40,830 --> 01:42:39,160
looked at nature he looked at bees he

2211
01:42:43,140 --> 01:42:40,840
looked at birds he looked at nature

2212
01:42:46,740 --> 01:42:43,150
itself and said they're communicating

2213
01:42:49,950 --> 01:42:46,750
right they they have the ability to do

2214
01:42:52,380 --> 01:42:49,960
this so do we and it goes back to his

2215
01:42:55,830 --> 01:42:52,390
thing with the dog when he was younger

2216
01:42:58,620 --> 01:42:55,840
and that was his pursuit and then it

2217
01:43:01,940 --> 01:42:58,630
changed it changed with the magic

2218
01:43:05,010 --> 01:43:01,950
mushrooms and other things plus the the

2219
01:43:07,410 --> 01:43:05,020
seances that were going on because he

2220
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:07,420
was convinced now that there was a way

2221
01:43:13,770 --> 01:43:11,530
to communicate with extraterrestrial

2222
01:43:16,740 --> 01:43:13,780
intelligence and that also became a

2223
01:43:18,870 --> 01:43:16,750
major part of his focus and he became a

2224
01:43:22,940 --> 01:43:18,880
changed man he completely grew his hair

2225
01:43:26,360 --> 01:43:22,950
long and just you know started a 20-year

2226
01:43:30,120 --> 01:43:26,370
involvement with the CIA and drugs and

2227
01:43:32,040 --> 01:43:30,130
ESP and telekinesis I mean he's such an

2228
01:43:34,440 --> 01:43:32,050
interesting character and you know it

2229
01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:34,450
did begin your in your interest in the

2230
01:43:38,550 --> 01:43:36,130
nine fascinates me because I did not

2231
01:43:41,010 --> 01:43:38,560
know about the nine before researching

2232
01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:41,020
this book but but the narrative I tell

2233
01:43:44,919 --> 01:43:42,170
in phenomena

2234
01:43:48,070 --> 01:43:44,929
is that Puharich meets up with a Hindu

2235
01:43:50,140 --> 01:43:48,080
scholar and mystic named dr. Vinod who's

2236
01:43:52,360 --> 01:43:50,150
visiting America as a part of a lecture

2237
01:43:58,660 --> 01:43:52,370
series for the Rotary Club I mean it

2238
01:44:02,709 --> 01:43:58,670
sounds so plebeian but the nod gives to

2239
01:44:05,229 --> 01:44:02,719
horik a reading and he's able to see

2240
01:44:08,050 --> 01:44:05,239
into his past and that's called retro

2241
01:44:09,459 --> 01:44:08,060
cognition in other words you know where

2242
01:44:12,370 --> 01:44:09,469
his precognition is seeing the future

2243
01:44:13,990 --> 01:44:12,380
instead the Nord grabs parks finger the

2244
01:44:16,300 --> 01:44:14,000
Weipa heart describes it and tells him

2245
01:44:18,160 --> 01:44:16,310
all these things about his past which

2246
01:44:20,590 --> 01:44:18,170
parks that he simply could not have

2247
01:44:23,400 --> 01:44:20,600
known and poo heart becomes obsessed

2248
01:44:27,370 --> 01:44:23,410
with Vinod brings him up to the mane and

2249
01:44:30,130 --> 01:44:27,380
begins conducting these séances with dr.

2250
01:44:31,959 --> 01:44:30,140
Vinod in the presence of his bevy of you

2251
01:44:34,959 --> 01:44:31,969
know these industrialists the Astros the

2252
01:44:38,890 --> 01:44:34,969
DuPont's the Forbes a young and what

2253
01:44:42,220 --> 01:44:38,900
what you know Vinod says is about this

2254
01:44:47,680 --> 01:44:42,230
group called the nine and that it gives

2255
01:44:51,310 --> 01:44:47,690
two horik this idea false or not that

2256
01:44:54,970 --> 01:44:51,320
somehow KU Herrick and this group must

2257
01:44:56,770 --> 01:44:54,980
act as guardians for this secret and

2258
01:44:58,990 --> 01:44:56,780
powerful knowledge that is about to be

2259
01:45:01,270 --> 01:44:59,000
imparted upon them that you know they

2260
01:45:02,890 --> 01:45:01,280
must take care of and that is

2261
01:45:06,310 --> 01:45:02,900
fascinating to me because it's this age

2262
01:45:08,950 --> 01:45:06,320
old idea of you know you're more

2263
01:45:11,310 --> 01:45:08,960
important than someone else what do you

2264
01:45:14,500 --> 01:45:11,320
want you want your take on Bernard now

2265
01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:14,510
do you think okay I'm going to ask you

2266
01:45:21,490 --> 01:45:16,810
to direct questions do you think that he

2267
01:45:24,490 --> 01:45:21,500
was a charlatan that he somehow got poo

2268
01:45:27,760 --> 01:45:24,500
Horrocks bio was able to read about his

2269
01:45:31,180 --> 01:45:27,770
life and he was set up by Vinod is that

2270
01:45:32,919 --> 01:45:31,190
a possibility I think it could be I mean

2271
01:45:35,350 --> 01:45:32,929
I looked and looked and looked for Vinod

2272
01:45:38,140 --> 01:45:35,360
and sometimes when I write in characters

2273
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:38,150
like this into the book you know it's

2274
01:45:41,290 --> 01:45:39,770
like a launching off its a launching

2275
01:45:43,450 --> 01:45:41,300
point for another journalist to pick up

2276
01:45:45,970 --> 01:45:43,460
that thread and see where where where

2277
01:45:47,560 --> 01:45:45,980
where it leads because you know in the

2278
01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:47,570
same way that I work on the shoulders of

2279
01:45:53,550 --> 01:45:49,610
other journalists and find things out I

2280
01:45:56,590 --> 01:45:53,560
take their footnotes and run with them

2281
01:45:58,030 --> 01:45:56,600
what I do put forth in the book that I

2282
01:46:01,750 --> 01:45:58,040
thought was super interesting and I

2283
01:46:04,600 --> 01:46:01,760
haven't hadn't read before was as I was

2284
01:46:08,530 --> 01:46:04,610
reporting about this idea of what's

2285
01:46:11,920 --> 01:46:08,540
called um crypto media and it's this

2286
01:46:12,880 --> 01:46:11,930
idea that you could you can be told some

2287
01:46:14,710 --> 01:46:12,890
people almost like you have a

2288
01:46:16,480 --> 01:46:14,720
photographic memory in the eye the great

2289
01:46:19,240 --> 01:46:16,490
irony of crypto media is the most famous

2290
01:46:21,430 --> 01:46:19,250
person ever accused of it is of all

2291
01:46:25,270 --> 01:46:21,440
people Helen Keller okay

2292
01:46:28,960 --> 01:46:25,280
um that she that she plagiarized this

2293
01:46:30,970 --> 01:46:28,970
story and the you know there was this

2294
01:46:33,790 --> 01:46:30,980
very big public trial and the idea is

2295
01:46:36,730 --> 01:46:33,800
well she must have been read the story

2296
01:46:39,130 --> 01:46:36,740
as a young girl she remembered it and

2297
01:46:42,310 --> 01:46:39,140
then ten years later or eight years

2298
01:46:45,280 --> 01:46:42,320
later was able to recount it verbatim as

2299
01:46:47,740 --> 01:46:45,290
her own I mean it's just it's hard to

2300
01:46:49,780 --> 01:46:47,750
even wrap your head around what a

2301
01:46:52,300 --> 01:46:49,790
complicated concept that is right

2302
01:46:54,970 --> 01:46:52,310
and also knowing Helen Keller that

2303
01:46:57,490 --> 01:46:54,980
doesn't seem like she had a you know a

2304
01:46:59,890 --> 01:46:57,500
malicious bone in her body and she was

2305
01:47:03,100 --> 01:46:59,900
certainly not a plagiarist but yet this

2306
01:47:06,870 --> 01:47:03,110
is what happened to her and so in

2307
01:47:12,940 --> 01:47:06,880
pursuing that idea about crypto media I

2308
01:47:16,240 --> 01:47:12,950
came across the story of written in 1922

2309
01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:16,250
by a British novelist in an adventure

2310
01:47:21,400 --> 01:47:18,890
magazine his name was Talbot Monday and

2311
01:47:25,260 --> 01:47:21,410
he wrote this story called the nine

2312
01:47:29,680 --> 01:47:25,270
unknown and it takes place in India in

2313
01:47:33,040 --> 01:47:29,690
270 BC but in essence it read to me very

2314
01:47:36,430 --> 01:47:33,050
much like what and the reader can decide

2315
01:47:39,940 --> 01:47:36,440
but what prove horik heard and we put

2316
01:47:42,550 --> 01:47:39,950
that in quotes from dr. Vinod was

2317
01:47:44,710 --> 01:47:42,560
essentially it very much read to me like

2318
01:47:45,370 --> 01:47:44,720
he cribbed the whole story from Talmud

2319
01:47:48,520 --> 01:47:45,380
Mondays

2320
01:47:51,760 --> 01:47:48,530
you know adventure magazine story called

2321
01:47:54,100 --> 01:47:51,770
the nine on now again you know I asked

2322
01:47:56,650 --> 01:47:54,110
in the book was was pirarucu charlatan

2323
01:47:58,840 --> 01:47:56,660
was he a plagiarist did he know this had

2324
01:48:01,450 --> 01:47:58,850
someone read he'd just read him this

2325
01:48:02,890 --> 01:48:01,460
story when he was a young boy and he

2326
01:48:05,410 --> 01:48:02,900
kind of had his health and Helen Keller

2327
01:48:06,199 --> 01:48:05,420
moment where he remembered it as his own

2328
01:48:08,390 --> 01:48:06,209
I mean

2329
01:48:10,640 --> 01:48:08,400
these are fascinating ideas separate if

2330
01:48:12,290 --> 01:48:10,650
you can push away the idea that someone

2331
01:48:15,429 --> 01:48:12,300
is a charlatan or a fraudster for a

2332
01:48:17,449 --> 01:48:15,439
moment and go with what many

2333
01:48:20,060 --> 01:48:17,459
psychologists work with this idea of

2334
01:48:22,429 --> 01:48:20,070
like what is the mind capable of

2335
01:48:26,839 --> 01:48:22,439
remembering you know that was the area

2336
01:48:32,779 --> 01:48:26,849
that I found very interesting and with

2337
01:48:34,819 --> 01:48:32,789
the CIA as they started to bring pull

2338
01:48:37,310 --> 01:48:34,829
Eric back in because now he is working

2339
01:48:39,770 --> 01:48:37,320
actually and lecturing for the Pentagon

2340
01:48:42,379 --> 01:48:39,780
at that point do you think he was

2341
01:48:45,109 --> 01:48:42,389
reluctant in that or do you think that

2342
01:48:49,489 --> 01:48:45,119
it was his way of still trying to move

2343
01:48:52,459 --> 01:48:49,499
all of this forward some way I think the

2344
01:48:54,379 --> 01:48:52,469
latter I think that and it's such an

2345
01:48:56,779 --> 01:48:54,389
interesting kind of push me pull money

2346
01:48:59,870 --> 01:48:56,789
relationship because he's Rajesh he's

2347
01:49:02,469 --> 01:48:59,880
consistent continually consistently

2348
01:49:05,660 --> 01:49:02,479
throughout his chronology he's both

2349
01:49:08,149 --> 01:49:05,670
desired his knowledge is desired by the

2350
01:49:13,520 --> 01:49:08,159
CIA and the Pentagon and also rejected

2351
01:49:16,129 --> 01:49:13,530
and for a insecure person like too harsh

2352
01:49:19,100 --> 01:49:16,139
you can only imagine what that must have

2353
01:49:21,949 --> 01:49:19,110
done to him and I think his response was

2354
01:49:24,739 --> 01:49:21,959
exactly what you said where he was both

2355
01:49:27,439 --> 01:49:24,749
he was like delighted to be invited back

2356
01:49:31,370 --> 01:49:27,449
in and then furious to be rejected but

2357
01:49:33,279 --> 01:49:31,380
he never was able to take his own

2358
01:49:36,469 --> 01:49:33,289
position and stick with it it's like if

2359
01:49:39,500 --> 01:49:36,479
when invited he was the first to show up

2360
01:49:42,319 --> 01:49:39,510
to the party when did the CIA at this

2361
01:49:47,449 --> 01:49:42,329
point in the timeline when did the CIA

2362
01:49:51,979 --> 01:49:47,459
go all in so in nineteen seven you have

2363
01:49:55,429 --> 01:49:51,989
sort of things did things sort of the

2364
01:49:57,529 --> 01:49:55,439
the story fades in this in the late 60s

2365
01:50:01,339 --> 01:49:57,539
certainly as far as this reporter could

2366
01:50:05,179 --> 01:50:01,349
learn but it begins back up again in

2367
01:50:07,609 --> 01:50:05,189
earnest in 1972 when the CIA approaches

2368
01:50:12,290 --> 01:50:07,619
how put off at the Stanford Research

2369
01:50:15,510 --> 01:50:12,300
Institute and lets him know that they

2370
01:50:19,620 --> 01:50:15,520
want that they are aware of

2371
01:50:27,050 --> 01:50:19,630
his work he's a physicist at Stanford

2372
01:50:32,700 --> 01:50:27,060
and he's a former MS a cryptologist and

2373
01:50:37,680 --> 01:50:32,710
he has an interest in ESP as it relates

2374
01:50:40,950 --> 01:50:37,690
to some bio medical physiological

2375
01:50:43,050 --> 01:50:40,960
experiments he's conducting and the CIA

2376
01:50:45,750 --> 01:50:43,060
finds out about it and approaches him

2377
01:50:49,340 --> 01:50:45,760
and says you would be a great candidate

2378
01:50:52,290 --> 01:50:49,350
for a program we're interested in seeing

2379
01:50:55,200 --> 01:50:52,300
whether or not there is any legitimacy

2380
01:50:57,210 --> 01:50:55,210
to ESP it's this continuing theme

2381
01:50:58,770 --> 01:50:57,220
throughout the book that like there's a

2382
01:51:01,800 --> 01:50:58,780
big interest in it and then it sort of

2383
01:51:07,170 --> 01:51:01,810
fades away and then a new set maybe it's

2384
01:51:09,600 --> 01:51:07,180
a new generation of analysts at CIA or

2385
01:51:12,270 --> 01:51:09,610
officers at the Pentagon become

2386
01:51:14,760 --> 01:51:12,280
supremely interested in this same

2387
01:51:17,310 --> 01:51:14,770
concept again and that you know

2388
01:51:23,670 --> 01:51:17,320
continues to intrigue me of is this

2389
01:51:25,590 --> 01:51:23,680
age-old quest a fool's errand or is it

2390
01:51:28,470 --> 01:51:25,600
kind of like this idea of eternal return

2391
01:51:31,800 --> 01:51:28,480
and that it the circle is moving and

2392
01:51:34,410 --> 01:51:31,810
building toward some kind of an answer

2393
01:51:36,540 --> 01:51:34,420
which we may or may not get in the

2394
01:51:39,270 --> 01:51:36,550
present day with advanced technology do

2395
01:51:42,420 --> 01:51:39,280
you think that the Soviet Union at that

2396
01:51:44,190 --> 01:51:42,430
time was also driving this too as well

2397
01:51:46,800 --> 01:51:44,200
because we didn't want them to get ahead

2398
01:51:49,020 --> 01:51:46,810
of us you know in the space race and

2399
01:51:52,020 --> 01:51:49,030
nuclear weapons and missile count and

2400
01:51:56,280 --> 01:51:52,030
everything else but this side of

2401
01:51:58,470 --> 01:51:56,290
Technology - we didn't want to relax

2402
01:51:59,850 --> 01:51:58,480
right we needed to pursue that do you

2403
01:52:02,640 --> 01:51:59,860
think that was driving them at the same

2404
01:52:04,470 --> 01:52:02,650
time yes you're absolutely it was a

2405
01:52:07,680 --> 01:52:04,480
driving force certainly why the CIA

2406
01:52:09,990 --> 01:52:07,690
picked up their program in 1972 and in

2407
01:52:16,730 --> 01:52:10,000
phenomena I tell the story of dr.

2408
01:52:22,620 --> 01:52:19,620
neurobiologist neurophysiologist

2409
01:52:24,600 --> 01:52:22,630
at CIA at the time in the early 70s the

2410
01:52:29,000 --> 01:52:24,610
way kit described it to me as he said I

2411
01:52:31,940 --> 01:52:29,010
ran the weird desk it was his job

2412
01:52:34,820 --> 01:52:31,950
to keep tabs on the Soviets to keep tabs

2413
01:52:37,250 --> 01:52:34,830
on the Chinese to look at the what was

2414
01:52:40,729 --> 01:52:37,260
going on in India with all of these

2415
01:52:43,910 --> 01:52:40,739
ideas of weird things of paranormal

2416
01:52:48,200 --> 01:52:43,920
goings-on of and I mean in the civilian

2417
01:52:51,100 --> 01:52:48,210
sector and also how it linked up to the

2418
01:52:54,860 --> 01:52:51,110
military and intelligence sectors and

2419
01:52:57,740 --> 01:52:54,870
green became involved early on in the

2420
01:52:59,960 --> 01:52:57,750
program alongside how put off and what I

2421
01:53:01,850 --> 01:52:59,970
found uh turley fascinating was that it

2422
01:53:05,479 --> 01:53:01,860
was Greene's job to look at the

2423
01:53:08,630 --> 01:53:05,489
physiology of the psychics that the CIA

2424
01:53:11,720 --> 01:53:08,640
now began to employ initially for

2425
01:53:14,530 --> 01:53:11,730
research purposes but which a program

2426
01:53:17,900 --> 01:53:14,540
which very quickly went operational and

2427
01:53:19,729 --> 01:53:17,910
here you have kid green faced with the

2428
01:53:22,550 --> 01:53:19,739
same question that Park was originally

2429
01:53:25,220 --> 01:53:22,560
asking which is what is this mysterious

2430
01:53:27,170 --> 01:53:25,230
energy force that may or may not be

2431
01:53:30,740 --> 01:53:27,180
powering extrasensory perception and

2432
01:53:33,590 --> 01:53:30,750
green summation was it's from within

2433
01:53:36,170 --> 01:53:33,600
meaning its physiological meaning we're

2434
01:53:38,780 --> 01:53:36,180
not talking about the paranormal we're

2435
01:53:40,790 --> 01:53:38,790
talking about the super normal and the

2436
01:53:42,650 --> 01:53:40,800
best analogy that Greene gave me was

2437
01:53:45,350 --> 01:53:42,660
when he asked me to think about Mozart

2438
01:53:47,960 --> 01:53:45,360
and he said you know so you have

2439
01:53:49,150 --> 01:53:47,970
somebody like Annie here who cannot sing

2440
01:53:52,130 --> 01:53:49,160
but in the shower

2441
01:53:54,920 --> 01:53:52,140
very bad voice look musically

2442
01:53:57,800 --> 01:53:54,930
disinclined okay and then you think of

2443
01:54:00,470 --> 01:53:57,810
Mozart and you think of the music he

2444
01:54:04,850 --> 01:54:00,480
composed and it just takes your breath

2445
01:54:07,729 --> 01:54:04,860
away with that extreme talent that that

2446
01:54:11,300 --> 01:54:07,739
powerful genius behind that Annie's

2447
01:54:13,460 --> 01:54:11,310
normal Mozart is a super normal right

2448
01:54:16,270 --> 01:54:13,470
and that's the theory that the CIA began

2449
01:54:18,320 --> 01:54:16,280
to pursue that this is something

2450
01:54:22,820 --> 01:54:18,330
physiological it's coming from within

2451
01:54:25,790 --> 01:54:22,830
you know I talked to how at length about

2452
01:54:27,700 --> 01:54:25,800
this did you have an opportunity to to

2453
01:54:30,650 --> 01:54:27,710
talk with Hal as well

2454
01:54:33,020 --> 01:54:30,660
interviewed pal put off at length

2455
01:54:37,640 --> 01:54:33,030
he's a major character in phenomenon

2456
01:54:39,860 --> 01:54:37,650
yeah he is uh okay I'm just going to say

2457
01:54:42,050 --> 01:54:39,870
this about how he's one of the craziest

2458
01:54:42,859 --> 01:54:42,060
coolest most interesting people on

2459
01:54:47,209 --> 01:54:42,869
planet Earth

2460
01:54:49,970 --> 01:54:47,219
Bar None right and when he there were a

2461
01:54:51,919 --> 01:54:49,980
couple of experiments that he did up

2462
01:54:56,000 --> 01:54:51,929
attempt because he didn't even feel that

2463
01:54:58,100 --> 01:54:56,010
he had any abilities himself right but

2464
01:55:01,220 --> 01:54:58,110
he turned her on he witnesses a couple

2465
01:55:04,220 --> 01:55:01,230
of things that go down you know viewing

2466
01:55:07,520 --> 01:55:04,230
rooms and stuff off campus off off site

2467
01:55:11,120 --> 01:55:07,530
and he you know at that point he

2468
01:55:12,979 --> 01:55:11,130
realized that they could scientifically

2469
01:55:15,830 --> 01:55:12,989
prove that something was going on and

2470
01:55:17,899 --> 01:55:15,840
approved it to himself and to hear how

2471
01:55:21,290 --> 01:55:17,909
tell the story I can't imagine how

2472
01:55:23,689 --> 01:55:21,300
exciting Stanford was back then because

2473
01:55:26,479 --> 01:55:23,699
they were at the groundbreaking of all

2474
01:55:28,189 --> 01:55:26,489
of this and they had the power to do and

2475
01:55:31,520 --> 01:55:28,199
the money in to do this research and

2476
01:55:35,390 --> 01:55:31,530
they were getting results and they had

2477
01:55:38,629 --> 01:55:35,400
three amazing super psychics that I

2478
01:55:42,200 --> 01:55:38,639
write about in the book Ingo Swann yep

2479
01:55:45,410 --> 01:55:42,210
hurry Gellar yep and Pat price jump up

2480
01:55:51,350 --> 01:55:45,420
and I was able to interview Gellar at

2481
01:55:53,000 --> 01:55:51,360
length Swann and price are both dead but

2482
01:55:56,330 --> 01:55:53,010
there's an extraordinary amount of

2483
01:56:01,160 --> 01:55:56,340
declassified documentation that I had

2484
01:56:03,200 --> 01:56:01,170
access to to be able to write about some

2485
01:56:06,589 --> 01:56:03,210
of those experiments that you're talking

2486
01:56:12,320 --> 01:56:06,599
about and one of my favorite sayings I

2487
01:56:15,800 --> 01:56:12,330
came across in how the CIA felt about

2488
01:56:19,100 --> 01:56:15,810
all this was how the concept of the

2489
01:56:23,689 --> 01:56:19,110
eight martini lunch came to be hm and

2490
01:56:26,240 --> 01:56:23,699
that is that the experience is that some

2491
01:56:29,050 --> 01:56:26,250
of these analysts who would start out as

2492
01:56:31,609 --> 01:56:29,060
skeptics very skeptical of the program

2493
01:56:33,649 --> 01:56:31,619
they would sit with one of these super

2494
01:56:37,220 --> 01:56:33,659
psychics in a Faraday cage an

2495
01:56:39,580 --> 01:56:37,230
electronically shielded room and go

2496
01:56:41,510 --> 01:56:39,590
through the experiment and witness

2497
01:56:44,149 --> 01:56:41,520
something that they could not explain

2498
01:56:47,479 --> 01:56:44,159
right and have to go home and have eight

2499
01:56:51,379 --> 01:56:47,489
martinis to kind of recover from

2500
01:56:53,510 --> 01:56:51,389
whatever it was that just happened it's

2501
01:56:55,850 --> 01:56:53,520
a bad expression yes that's like the

2502
01:56:56,840 --> 01:56:55,860
eighth martini result let's take a break

2503
01:56:58,790 --> 01:56:56,850
right here because we

2504
01:57:01,760 --> 01:56:58,800
we come back we're going to start into

2505
01:57:04,370 --> 01:57:01,770
the modern side the modern-day aspect of

2506
01:57:06,500 --> 01:57:04,380
phenomenon - a great book our guest

2507
01:57:08,150 --> 01:57:06,510
tonight ante Jacobson I'm your

2508
01:57:10,340 --> 01:57:08,160
signatures this is paid to Blackmore

2509
01:57:21,890 --> 01:57:10,350
worth adding when we return you stay

2510
01:57:28,400 --> 01:57:21,900
right there - Rob Halford the metal

2511
01:57:31,820 --> 01:57:28,410
guard on Jimmy Church radio gong kgr a

2512
01:57:34,100 --> 01:57:31,830
radio intelligent talk do you know

2513
01:57:35,480 --> 01:57:34,110
what's in your body so well I didn't

2514
01:57:37,580 --> 01:57:35,490
know the answer until about five years

2515
01:57:39,440 --> 01:57:37,590
ago when I looked at the label of my

2516
01:57:41,120 --> 01:57:39,450
soap and was shocked to see all the

2517
01:57:43,520 --> 01:57:41,130
chemicals for my entire life

2518
01:57:45,830 --> 01:57:43,530
I had been assaulting the largest organ

2519
01:57:48,470 --> 01:57:45,840
of my body my skin and to think my

2520
01:57:50,780 --> 01:57:48,480
children were using it - well a lot has

2521
01:57:53,090 --> 01:57:50,790
changed since then today my family and I

2522
01:57:55,340 --> 01:57:53,100
operate stone city farms where we make

2523
01:57:57,740 --> 01:57:55,350
and sell all-natural goat milk soap

2524
01:58:00,260 --> 01:57:57,750
using fresh goat milk from goats we

2525
01:58:01,850 --> 01:58:00,270
raised on our farm our mission at shone

2526
01:58:04,550 --> 01:58:01,860
city farm is to produce high-quality

2527
01:58:06,650 --> 01:58:04,560
all-natural goat milk soap for people

2528
01:58:09,020 --> 01:58:06,660
who want to fresh unrefined natural

2529
01:58:11,750 --> 01:58:09,030
products at Stone City Farm we offer

2530
01:58:14,090 --> 01:58:11,760
scented and unscented soap and a

2531
01:58:16,460 --> 01:58:14,100
signature line of gift sets customizable

2532
01:58:19,130 --> 01:58:16,470
to your needs to see what our customers

2533
01:58:21,470 --> 01:58:19,140
are saying go to Stone City Farm Calm

2534
01:58:24,440 --> 01:58:21,480
use the code natural for a 20 percent

2535
01:58:26,540 --> 01:58:24,450
discount at Stone City Farm tom code

2536
01:58:29,030 --> 01:58:26,550
natural for 20 percent off your order

2537
01:58:34,100 --> 01:58:29,040
you never know what could be hiding in

2538
01:58:37,430 --> 01:58:34,110
your soap so you love talk radio then

2539
01:58:40,520 --> 01:58:37,440
you'll love talk stream live calm talk

2540
01:58:42,530 --> 01:58:40,530
stream live is always on 24/7 with the

2541
01:58:44,480 --> 01:58:42,540
best dreamin talk shows find your

2542
01:58:46,790 --> 01:58:44,490
favorite talkers and discover some new

2543
01:58:49,790 --> 01:58:46,800
ones it's free readily available online

2544
01:58:51,680 --> 01:58:49,800
or on the smartphone or tablet finding

2545
01:58:54,350 --> 01:58:51,690
your favorite talk shows all in one

2546
01:58:57,020 --> 01:58:54,360
place has gotten a whole lot easier just

2547
01:58:58,970 --> 01:58:57,030
go to talk stream live calm be sure to

2548
01:59:01,120 --> 01:58:58,980
download the free apps from Google Play

2549
01:59:03,650 --> 01:59:01,130
or the itunes app store

2550
01:59:04,770 --> 01:59:03,660
would you like relief from muscle pain

2551
01:59:06,839 --> 01:59:04,780
headaches and

2552
01:59:09,120 --> 01:59:06,849
Comfort to sleep better have more energy

2553
01:59:11,729 --> 01:59:09,130
during the day and just feel naturally

2554
01:59:13,830 --> 01:59:11,739
amazing fibro malik can help its blend

2555
01:59:15,689 --> 01:59:13,840
of malic acid and magnesium can provide

2556
01:59:18,000 --> 01:59:15,699
pain relief and comfort for those who

2557
01:59:20,010 --> 01:59:18,010
experience fibromyalgia it helps your

2558
01:59:21,930 --> 01:59:20,020
body absorb more oxygen and it works

2559
01:59:24,120 --> 01:59:21,940
quickly for a significant reduction in

2560
01:59:26,910 --> 01:59:24,130
rain within 48 hours all without a

2561
01:59:29,189 --> 01:59:26,920
prescription ask for fibromyalgia health

2562
01:59:34,080 --> 01:59:29,199
and vitamin shoppe or shop bible mellow

2563
01:59:35,939 --> 01:59:34,090
calm did you know that when you're on

2564
01:59:38,399 --> 01:59:35,949
the road with limited data or Wi-Fi

2565
01:59:40,319 --> 01:59:38,409
available you can still listen to every

2566
01:59:43,109 --> 01:59:40,329
minute of fade to black by just calling

2567
01:59:46,140 --> 01:59:43,119
six oh five five six two four four eight

2568
01:59:48,629 --> 01:59:46,150
two no smartphone app or internet needed

2569
01:59:51,240 --> 01:59:48,639
it saves your data plan and no extra

2570
01:59:54,060 --> 01:59:51,250
cost if you have unlimited minutes just

2571
01:59:56,339 --> 01:59:54,070
call six oh five five six two four four

2572
01:59:58,950 --> 01:59:56,349
eight two you can listen to me Jimmy

2573
02:00:07,820 --> 01:59:58,960
Church on any phone anytime anywhere

2574
02:00:11,970 --> 02:00:09,830
[Applause]

2575
02:00:16,200 --> 02:00:11,980
you wanna know a secret

2576
02:00:16,920 --> 02:00:16,210
I love ponies I really love ponies I'm

2577
02:00:19,800 --> 02:00:16,930
serious

2578
02:00:24,000 --> 02:00:19,810
I couldn't stay sane without Poe mr.

2579
02:00:30,510 --> 02:00:24,010
Bush why fade to black because you never

2580
02:00:30,780 --> 02:00:30,520
got that pony damn it this is fade to

2581
02:00:32,940 --> 02:00:30,790
black

2582
02:00:36,630 --> 02:00:32,950
with Jimmy Church on the game changer

2583
02:00:39,010 --> 02:00:36,640
radio network at K GRA the global radio

2584
02:00:50,690 --> 02:00:39,020
alliance

2585
02:00:58,560 --> 02:00:56,880
what an amazing Joe Andy Jacobson this

2586
02:01:01,740 --> 02:00:58,570
portion of the broadcast is brought to

2587
02:01:03,330 --> 02:01:01,750
you by life change T just go right now

2588
02:01:05,460 --> 02:01:03,340
by clicking on the banners over to me

2589
02:01:08,460 --> 02:01:05,470
church radio calm it'll take you two

2590
02:01:10,350 --> 02:01:08,470
straight to get the t-dot-com

2591
02:01:12,060 --> 02:01:10,360
just mentioned Jimmy when you order

2592
02:01:14,100 --> 02:01:12,070
either online or over the phone and

2593
02:01:17,970 --> 02:01:14,110
you're going to get yourself some free

2594
02:01:21,060 --> 02:01:17,980
shipping do what I do go to the specials

2595
02:01:23,760 --> 02:01:21,070
page all right Annie this is okay now

2596
02:01:25,380 --> 02:01:23,770
we're in a fresh era now or you know

2597
02:01:28,500 --> 02:01:25,390
it's hard to believe it was 40 years ago

2598
02:01:31,680 --> 02:01:28,510
but I consider the 70s today right we're

2599
02:01:33,240 --> 02:01:31,690
now in the modern age that let's let's

2600
02:01:36,090 --> 02:01:33,250
go through this cast of characters

2601
02:01:41,520 --> 02:01:36,100
really quickly and and do it

2602
02:01:45,690 --> 02:01:41,530
individually who was Pat price Pat price

2603
02:01:48,060 --> 02:01:45,700
was a fascinating person to the CIA and

2604
02:01:52,830 --> 02:01:48,070
he remains a great enigma he was there

2605
02:01:55,710 --> 02:01:52,840
for a very brief period of time in the

2606
02:01:57,740 --> 02:01:55,720
70s and he kind of showed up out of the

2607
02:02:00,300 --> 02:01:57,750
blue and again it sort of sort of

2608
02:02:04,050 --> 02:02:00,310
featured into this mystical concept of

2609
02:02:05,580 --> 02:02:04,060
him he was actually put off and Hal put

2610
02:02:08,220 --> 02:02:05,590
off the lead scientist on the program

2611
02:02:10,350 --> 02:02:08,230
and Ingo Swann the lead psychic had

2612
02:02:13,560 --> 02:02:10,360
taken a break from the office one day to

2613
02:02:15,900 --> 02:02:13,570
go buy a Christmas tree you know down

2614
02:02:17,880 --> 02:02:15,910
the road from Stanford and they the

2615
02:02:19,950 --> 02:02:17,890
Christmas tree salesman is this guy

2616
02:02:22,200 --> 02:02:19,960
named Pat price and he says to them I

2617
02:02:25,530 --> 02:02:22,210
know you guys and if you ever need any

2618
02:02:27,180 --> 02:02:25,540
help just ask I mean it was put off told

2619
02:02:30,570 --> 02:02:27,190
me it was such a cryptic weird thing to

2620
02:02:32,040 --> 02:02:30,580
say and the program was secret so what

2621
02:02:34,080 --> 02:02:32,050
was this guy talking about and then

2622
02:02:37,380 --> 02:02:34,090
later they get a telephone call from him

2623
02:02:39,090 --> 02:02:37,390
and he offers up his services and you

2624
02:02:42,060 --> 02:02:39,100
know I'm not going to go into details

2625
02:02:44,430 --> 02:02:42,070
about what price the services price

2626
02:02:45,840 --> 02:02:44,440
performed in the book because they're

2627
02:02:47,910 --> 02:02:45,850
pretty astonishing and they come

2628
02:02:50,580 --> 02:02:47,920
straight out of declassified CIA

2629
02:02:54,570 --> 02:02:50,590
documents but what I will say is that

2630
02:02:57,770 --> 02:02:54,580
prices information was so accurate they

2631
02:03:02,400 --> 02:02:57,780
tested him had him look at underground

2632
02:03:04,710 --> 02:03:02,410
NSA facilities 3,000 miles away asked

2633
02:03:07,890 --> 02:03:04,720
him what was there and price was able to

2634
02:03:10,680 --> 02:03:07,900
produce alpha numeric information

2635
02:03:13,650 --> 02:03:10,690
meaning not descriptions of rooms but

2636
02:03:16,380 --> 02:03:13,660
we're talking about code names off of

2637
02:03:18,690 --> 02:03:16,390
file folders right and when put off

2638
02:03:23,070 --> 02:03:18,700
reported this back to his handlers at

2639
02:03:27,120 --> 02:03:23,080
CIA the sort of alarm the security alarm

2640
02:03:31,200 --> 02:03:27,130
bells went off and put off gets a visit

2641
02:03:34,020 --> 02:03:31,210
from you know security with a serious

2642
02:03:36,570 --> 02:03:34,030
concern that they have some kind of a

2643
02:03:39,090 --> 02:03:36,580
mole in house because they can't imagine

2644
02:03:42,420 --> 02:03:39,100
how this information has been given to

2645
02:03:44,880 --> 02:03:42,430
them it's knowing me unknowable and the

2646
02:03:48,150 --> 02:03:44,890
fact that Pat price you know not only is

2647
02:03:50,760 --> 02:03:48,160
not arrested but is then hired in sort

2648
02:03:53,070 --> 02:03:50,770
of a permanent position on the Fri

2649
02:03:55,320 --> 02:03:53,080
program as the lead psychic speaks

2650
02:03:57,950 --> 02:03:55,330
volumes but then what's also speak

2651
02:04:00,810 --> 02:03:57,960
volumes is that you know a year later

2652
02:04:01,440 --> 02:04:00,820
Pat price mysteriously dies of a heart

2653
02:04:04,830 --> 02:04:01,450
attack

2654
02:04:07,590 --> 02:04:04,840
Ronis create all kinds of conspiracy

2655
02:04:10,980 --> 02:04:07,600
theories from the idea his internal

2656
02:04:13,890 --> 02:04:10,990
gossip now if you will did the Soviets

2657
02:04:16,350 --> 02:04:13,900
kill him did the CIA kill him I mean you

2658
02:04:20,160 --> 02:04:16,360
even have the Church of Scientology

2659
02:04:23,250 --> 02:04:20,170
involved and you know this is part of

2660
02:04:27,660 --> 02:04:23,260
the Enigma of Pat price and the legend

2661
02:04:30,120 --> 02:04:27,670
of that price and we all know about uri

2662
02:04:33,210 --> 02:04:30,130
geller but he had an interesting start

2663
02:04:34,550 --> 02:04:33,220
and he was did say for me when it comes

2664
02:04:37,650 --> 02:04:34,560
to Yuri

2665
02:04:41,790 --> 02:04:37,660
when I was in my 20s I was a doofus

2666
02:04:44,480 --> 02:04:41,800
right Yuri in his 20s was hanging out

2667
02:04:49,440 --> 02:04:44,490
with Moshe Dayan

2668
02:04:51,830 --> 02:04:49,450
and was well on his way he was a he was

2669
02:04:55,380 --> 02:04:51,840
a huge celebrity in Israel at that time

2670
02:04:58,740 --> 02:04:55,390
he was I mean he put psychic functioning

2671
02:05:02,880 --> 02:04:58,750
on the map and it's I think it's why he

2672
02:05:05,310 --> 02:05:02,890
is he causes so much anger and fear

2673
02:05:08,100 --> 02:05:05,320
among the scientific skeptics

2674
02:05:10,350 --> 02:05:08,110
you know they have been engaged in a

2675
02:05:14,430 --> 02:05:10,360
battle with him for decades and I have

2676
02:05:17,399 --> 02:05:14,440
to say I think Gellar has won and I say

2677
02:05:19,500 --> 02:05:17,409
that because I spent quite a bit of time

2678
02:05:27,870 --> 02:05:19,510
with him at his home in England and also

2679
02:05:31,740 --> 02:05:27,880
in Israel and he is absolutely delighted

2680
02:05:34,560 --> 02:05:31,750
to continue bending spoons for anyone on

2681
02:05:39,209 --> 02:05:34,570
the street that often did he bend a

2682
02:05:43,280 --> 02:05:39,219
spoon for you he bent so many spoons in

2683
02:05:47,220 --> 02:05:43,290
my presence and yes I watched countless

2684
02:05:49,410 --> 02:05:47,230
videos with the magicians bending spoons

2685
02:05:51,359 --> 02:05:49,420
with pre digis station which is what

2686
02:05:53,640 --> 02:05:51,369
they call it so there's no doubt that

2687
02:05:55,890 --> 02:05:53,650
magicians can bend spoon to trickery

2688
02:05:58,979 --> 02:05:55,900
that's not the issue that I try to

2689
02:06:02,939 --> 02:05:58,989
confront in phenomena what I try and

2690
02:06:04,890 --> 02:06:02,949
confront is is early Geller capable of

2691
02:06:07,229 --> 02:06:04,900
bending spoons through psychokinesis

2692
02:06:10,109 --> 02:06:07,239
right and I think the disconnect between

2693
02:06:12,660 --> 02:06:10,119
the skeptics and him is that they just

2694
02:06:16,800 --> 02:06:12,670
state simply because they can do it by

2695
02:06:18,359 --> 02:06:16,810
magic by you know a magic act means that

2696
02:06:22,530 --> 02:06:18,369
any that that is how anyone else is

2697
02:06:25,080 --> 02:06:22,540
doing it um but you know Geller going

2698
02:06:27,419 --> 02:06:25,090
back to the 70s what we now know from

2699
02:06:31,439 --> 02:06:27,429
these declassified CIA documents is that

2700
02:06:33,149 --> 02:06:31,449
Geller was a CIA asset and pulling these

2701
02:06:36,510 --> 02:06:33,159
different threads together what we also

2702
02:06:38,790 --> 02:06:36,520
know is that Geller was recruited by ku

2703
02:06:41,819 --> 02:06:38,800
horik who at this point in the story and

2704
02:06:44,660 --> 02:06:41,829
were mid 1970s you would think you know

2705
02:06:47,310 --> 02:06:44,670
with his long hair and his you know

2706
02:06:51,740 --> 02:06:47,320
decades now of taking hallucinogenic

2707
02:06:56,129 --> 02:06:51,750
mushrooms would have completely become

2708
02:06:58,290 --> 02:06:56,139
persona non grata at CIA and instead the

2709
02:07:00,330 --> 02:06:58,300
CIA were very interested in what he was

2710
02:07:01,740 --> 02:07:00,340
doing and who he was working with they

2711
02:07:03,319 --> 02:07:01,750
just didn't want anyone else to know

2712
02:07:05,850 --> 02:07:03,329
that they were interested in him and

2713
02:07:09,120 --> 02:07:05,860
again the CIA documents show that where

2714
02:07:11,520 --> 02:07:09,130
they work very hard to mask his

2715
02:07:12,990 --> 02:07:11,530
participation in anything but um but

2716
02:07:15,120 --> 02:07:13,000
he's there he's there all the way

2717
02:07:17,310 --> 02:07:15,130
through the 90s you said something

2718
02:07:19,260 --> 02:07:17,320
interesting about her you think that

2719
02:07:23,760 --> 02:07:19,270
ultimately he

2720
02:07:25,920 --> 02:07:23,770
as one why do you say that I mean I tend

2721
02:07:32,640 --> 02:07:25,930
to agree with that but why would you say

2722
02:07:34,740 --> 02:07:32,650
that I think that all right this is just

2723
02:07:38,070 --> 02:07:34,750
my personal perspective but I think if

2724
02:07:42,270 --> 02:07:38,080
you're a happy and content person you

2725
02:07:45,240 --> 02:07:42,280
want and I think if you are an angry and

2726
02:07:51,690 --> 02:07:45,250
defiant person you have not one right

2727
02:07:55,980 --> 02:07:51,700
defeated yes yes and I was fascinated in

2728
02:08:01,250 --> 02:07:55,990
my interviews with hurry discussing with

2729
02:08:04,260 --> 02:08:01,260
him this 50-year long battle with

2730
02:08:06,870 --> 02:08:04,270
scientific skeptics in general but James

2731
02:08:11,670 --> 02:08:06,880
Randi in particular because Randy has

2732
02:08:16,650 --> 02:08:11,680
been you know dueling with Geller for

2733
02:08:20,340 --> 02:08:16,660
decades now I found Geller harboring no

2734
02:08:25,730 --> 02:08:20,350
resentment no anger and perfectly

2735
02:08:29,400 --> 02:08:25,740
willing to discuss that decades-long

2736
02:08:33,900 --> 02:08:29,410
battle with a kind of neutrality that I

2737
02:08:37,500 --> 02:08:33,910
found interesting and when I spoke to

2738
02:08:39,900 --> 02:08:37,510
James Randi about irregular I found the

2739
02:08:44,820 --> 02:08:39,910
opposite to be true bitter bitter bitter

2740
02:08:46,830 --> 02:08:44,830
man he was so angry at Geller and of

2741
02:08:50,100 --> 02:08:46,840
course this is the famous quote that I

2742
02:08:53,040 --> 02:08:50,110
write in my book that astonished me he

2743
02:08:57,030 --> 02:08:53,050
said Cory Geller is a charlatan and a

2744
02:09:00,630 --> 02:08:57,040
fraud and when I die I want to be

2745
02:09:04,740 --> 02:09:00,640
cremated and have my ashes blown in

2746
02:09:08,190 --> 02:09:04,750
early Geller's eyes Wow let it go bro

2747
02:09:12,810 --> 02:09:08,200
yes that's a powerfully angry statement

2748
02:09:15,770 --> 02:09:12,820
yes let it go in that regard that so for

2749
02:09:18,990 --> 02:09:15,780
me and again this is my opinion right um

2750
02:09:21,330 --> 02:09:19,000
hurry Gellar has won that battle do you

2751
02:09:23,010 --> 02:09:21,340
think that part of it and then I want to

2752
02:09:25,680 --> 02:09:23,020
move on Engle Swan but do you think that

2753
02:09:28,050 --> 02:09:25,690
part of it and I find nothing wrong with

2754
02:09:30,510 --> 02:09:28,060
this statement pleasing part of it is

2755
02:09:32,280 --> 02:09:30,520
because Yuri was a rock star and he made

2756
02:09:36,280 --> 02:09:32,290
money and was an entertainer

2757
02:09:38,979 --> 02:09:36,290
you know I mean he had real a real

2758
02:09:41,950 --> 02:09:38,989
talent but he took advantage of it and

2759
02:09:43,899 --> 02:09:41,960
it was on TV a lot you know you think

2760
02:09:46,120 --> 02:09:43,909
that that is part of it and part of the

2761
02:09:48,970 --> 02:09:46,130
anger with somebody like Randy that just

2762
02:09:53,169 --> 02:09:48,980
cannot deal with it because URI just

2763
02:09:54,459 --> 02:09:53,179
chose to profit I don't know but I also

2764
02:09:56,439 --> 02:09:54,469
thought it was very interesting that

2765
02:09:58,750 --> 02:09:56,449
most of the military psychics that I

2766
02:10:01,270 --> 02:09:58,760
interviewed you know said with kind of

2767
02:10:02,979 --> 02:10:01,280
pride I never made any money doing this

2768
02:10:04,810 --> 02:10:02,989
it was always for flag and country I

2769
02:10:07,260 --> 02:10:04,820
just a statement right right

2770
02:10:09,850 --> 02:10:07,270
but Geller on the other hand is very

2771
02:10:11,830 --> 02:10:09,860
open about the fact that he's made an

2772
02:10:14,050 --> 02:10:11,840
extraordinary amount of money and you

2773
02:10:16,510 --> 02:10:14,060
know the Economist magazine reported

2774
02:10:19,270 --> 02:10:16,520
them on the millions of dollars that

2775
02:10:21,820 --> 02:10:19,280
Geller made in the 80s and 90s dousing

2776
02:10:25,890 --> 02:10:21,830
for petroleum Germany yes yes calm yes

2777
02:10:30,189 --> 02:10:25,900
him so I mean he Geller truly

2778
02:10:32,410 --> 02:10:30,199
capitalized on his talents that's what

2779
02:10:35,229 --> 02:10:32,420
you know that's an interesting another

2780
02:10:37,689 --> 02:10:35,239
detail that I learned from an article in

2781
02:10:42,120 --> 02:10:37,699
a recent article in The New York Times

2782
02:10:47,110 --> 02:10:42,130
about Randy because he was involved in a

2783
02:10:50,860 --> 02:10:47,120
what turned out to be a fraud with his

2784
02:10:54,010 --> 02:10:50,870
boyfriend of decades who had stolen the

2785
02:10:55,689 --> 02:10:54,020
identity of another person right and was

2786
02:10:57,340 --> 02:10:55,699
arrested and I write about it in the

2787
02:11:04,990 --> 02:10:57,350
book you know in this big sort of

2788
02:11:09,820 --> 02:11:05,000
scandal um you know again a James Randi

2789
02:11:14,229 --> 02:11:09,830
was not able to take ownership in my

2790
02:11:17,380 --> 02:11:14,239
opinion of what st. being less than

2791
02:11:20,260 --> 02:11:17,390
perfect less than impeccable right and

2792
02:11:21,970 --> 02:11:20,270
again that is you know that kind of

2793
02:11:24,100 --> 02:11:21,980
speaks volumes at least to this reporter

2794
02:11:27,760 --> 02:11:24,110
but the one detail I found interesting

2795
02:11:30,280 --> 02:11:27,770
about money is that earlier in his life

2796
02:11:31,990 --> 02:11:30,290
James Randi had been given the MacArthur

2797
02:11:33,550 --> 02:11:32,000
award which is often called the genius

2798
02:11:37,630 --> 02:11:33,560
award right where you're just given

2799
02:11:40,390 --> 02:11:37,640
several hundred thousand dollars to do

2800
02:11:40,870 --> 02:11:40,400
with what you will just because you're a

2801
02:11:41,800 --> 02:11:40,880
genius

2802
02:11:45,570 --> 02:11:41,810
you know and that's kind of like a

2803
02:11:48,170 --> 02:11:45,580
metaphor for your super cool and

2804
02:11:53,100 --> 02:11:48,180
as it was reported in the New York Times

2805
02:12:00,330 --> 02:11:53,110
Randy spent the majority of his genius

2806
02:12:05,160 --> 02:12:00,340
grant suing Geller the yes it is it is

2807
02:12:07,650 --> 02:12:05,170
fascinating and uh ok ok that's the way

2808
02:12:08,760 --> 02:12:07,660
by the way in other words he burned

2809
02:12:11,970 --> 02:12:08,770
through his money

2810
02:12:14,130 --> 02:12:11,980
um and this is what linked eller and

2811
02:12:17,430 --> 02:12:14,140
trying to settle libel suits against

2812
02:12:23,940 --> 02:12:17,440
Geller and there was one other thing can

2813
02:12:25,740 --> 02:12:23,950
you confirm this that that Yuri I had

2814
02:12:27,900 --> 02:12:25,750
read ok I'm just going to get straight

2815
02:12:30,090 --> 02:12:27,910
to the point that these petroleum

2816
02:12:32,970 --> 02:12:30,100
companies the major ones around the

2817
02:12:37,980 --> 02:12:32,980
world they were paying him millions of

2818
02:12:40,380 --> 02:12:37,990
dollars a crack to dowse right and he

2819
02:12:44,160 --> 02:12:40,390
must have been successful because they

2820
02:12:45,840 --> 02:12:44,170
kept going back to him right can you get

2821
02:12:47,310 --> 02:12:45,850
firm that did you talk about that mills

2822
02:12:51,870 --> 02:12:47,320
the way it was reported in the financial

2823
02:12:54,060 --> 02:12:51,880
times ok was that and I confirmed all

2824
02:12:55,740 --> 02:12:54,070
this with Geller but you know again it's

2825
02:12:58,830 --> 02:12:55,750
it's there's a record here

2826
02:13:01,860 --> 02:12:58,840
he was take for example Rio Tinto's Inc

2827
02:13:03,900 --> 02:13:01,870
which is a huge petroleum and mining

2828
02:13:07,080 --> 02:13:03,910
company that was working out of England

2829
02:13:14,370 --> 02:13:07,090
they would pay him a million pound fee

2830
02:13:18,720 --> 02:13:14,380
okay this is back in the 90s and then

2831
02:13:21,570 --> 02:13:18,730
and Geller was so successful in his work

2832
02:13:24,240 --> 02:13:21,580
that their financial arrangement changed

2833
02:13:27,660 --> 02:13:24,250
as per Geller so instead of getting a

2834
02:13:32,220 --> 02:13:27,670
million dollar fee he decided to take a

2835
02:13:35,070 --> 02:13:32,230
percentage of the of the profits based

2836
02:13:37,140 --> 02:13:35,080
on what he discovered and that I found

2837
02:13:38,400 --> 02:13:37,150
particularly remarkable he was willing

2838
02:13:41,070 --> 02:13:38,410
to bet on himself

2839
02:13:42,840 --> 02:13:41,080
right right right and the way it was

2840
02:13:44,700 --> 02:13:42,850
reported in the financial times was that

2841
02:13:47,400 --> 02:13:44,710
he had made he'd worked on at least

2842
02:13:50,040 --> 02:13:47,410
eleven known balancing projects for an

2843
02:13:54,120 --> 02:13:50,050
income total of roughly thirty three

2844
02:13:57,450 --> 02:13:54,130
point seven five million dollars not not

2845
02:13:58,680 --> 02:13:57,460
a bad take that is remarkable not a bad

2846
02:14:00,959 --> 02:13:58,690
cake

2847
02:14:02,399 --> 02:14:00,969
okay let's get it's good to Ingo Swan

2848
02:14:04,680 --> 02:14:02,409
because I want to jump back over to the

2849
02:14:09,000 --> 02:14:04,690
Soviet Union really quick

2850
02:14:13,649 --> 02:14:09,010
who is Ingo Swan in this Ingo Swan was

2851
02:14:17,100 --> 02:14:13,659
the first super psychic used by Stanford

2852
02:14:19,530 --> 02:14:17,110
Research Institute under a CIA contract

2853
02:14:24,870 --> 02:14:19,540
with how put off as the lead scientist

2854
02:14:28,140 --> 02:14:24,880
and also Russell Targ and Swan was an

2855
02:14:30,840 --> 02:14:28,150
artist in New York City who had been

2856
02:14:32,820 --> 02:14:30,850
working with Gertrude mindler we spoke

2857
02:14:35,580 --> 02:14:32,830
of earlier the Harvard psychologist and

2858
02:14:39,629 --> 02:14:35,590
she was doing psychokinesis experiments

2859
02:14:42,450 --> 02:14:39,639
at the time and Swan was also

2860
02:14:44,189 --> 02:14:42,460
moonlighting for the American Society

2861
02:14:46,680 --> 02:14:44,199
for psychical research you know all

2862
02:14:49,500 --> 02:14:46,690
these different parapsychology groups at

2863
02:14:51,870 --> 02:14:49,510
the 70s who are sort of vying for pole

2864
02:14:55,260 --> 02:14:51,880
position of whose work was more

2865
02:14:58,020 --> 02:14:55,270
scientific and he you know I love

2866
02:15:00,770 --> 02:14:58,030
writing I really enjoyed researching and

2867
02:15:04,200 --> 02:15:00,780
reporting his story he wrote a number of

2868
02:15:07,919 --> 02:15:04,210
memoirs which are unpublished but have

2869
02:15:11,209 --> 02:15:07,929
this incredible detailed descriptions of

2870
02:15:13,350 --> 02:15:11,219
his work and his experiences and he was

2871
02:15:15,750 --> 02:15:13,360
extremely eccentric by his own

2872
02:15:18,000 --> 02:15:15,760
admittance and he was very defiant in

2873
02:15:22,040 --> 02:15:18,010
his ideas and when his when he was kind

2874
02:15:23,939 --> 02:15:22,050
of rejected by the elite

2875
02:15:26,850 --> 02:15:23,949
parapsychologist in New York City for

2876
02:15:29,879 --> 02:15:26,860
being too weird he took this offer from

2877
02:15:33,899 --> 02:15:29,889
how put off to go out and be tested by a

2878
02:15:35,910 --> 02:15:33,909
real you know physicist out there

2879
02:15:38,550 --> 02:15:35,920
affiliated with Stanford University and

2880
02:15:41,070 --> 02:15:38,560
it was like the way Swan wrote it in his

2881
02:15:42,600 --> 02:15:41,080
memoir was that he was just terrified

2882
02:15:45,030 --> 02:15:42,610
and at first he said no and then he

2883
02:15:47,280 --> 02:15:45,040
finally decided okay I'll find out once

2884
02:15:51,030 --> 02:15:47,290
and for all either this is all in my

2885
02:15:53,340 --> 02:15:51,040
imagination or it's real and you know it

2886
02:15:55,290 --> 02:15:53,350
was a great origin story I thought for

2887
02:15:57,959 --> 02:15:55,300
the work of put off and Swan together

2888
02:16:00,840 --> 02:15:57,969
and the decades of work that they ended

2889
02:16:03,510 --> 02:16:00,850
up doing together you know how put off

2890
02:16:06,180 --> 02:16:03,520
shared with me the speech that he gave

2891
02:16:09,830 --> 02:16:06,190
at Ingo swans funeral just a few years

2892
02:16:11,780 --> 02:16:09,840
ago you know and it's very moving to

2893
02:16:14,060 --> 02:16:11,790
realize what a crew

2894
02:16:17,000 --> 02:16:14,070
these two had together and they worked

2895
02:16:19,160 --> 02:16:17,010
kind of hand in glove the physicists and

2896
02:16:24,800 --> 02:16:19,170
the psychic it was a great story to tell

2897
02:16:28,910 --> 02:16:24,810
and once the CIA and the NSA were able

2898
02:16:31,790 --> 02:16:28,920
to find out that you know Pat price and

2899
02:16:35,540 --> 02:16:31,800
and and Russell you know this this whole

2900
02:16:40,190 --> 02:16:35,550
crew put off we're in Ingo were able to

2901
02:16:43,790 --> 02:16:40,200
actually read maps documents things that

2902
02:16:46,700 --> 02:16:43,800
are on top of desk remotely here then

2903
02:16:49,640 --> 02:16:46,710
certainly the Soviets could do the same

2904
02:16:52,850 --> 02:16:49,650
with us in CIA headquarters of the

2905
02:16:56,089 --> 02:16:52,860
Pentagon that must have been a true fear

2906
02:16:58,070 --> 02:16:56,099
at that point I mean that that

2907
02:16:59,540 --> 02:16:58,080
absolutely is and again good looking at

2908
02:17:01,820 --> 02:16:59,550
the declassified documents was

2909
02:17:03,850 --> 02:17:01,830
fascinating I also interviewed a man

2910
02:17:06,110 --> 02:17:03,860
named Dale Graff who's really the

2911
02:17:08,419 --> 02:17:06,120
progenitor of the Defense Department

2912
02:17:12,129 --> 02:17:08,429
programs and he was the analyst first

2913
02:17:15,890 --> 02:17:12,139
assigned to write what is a now-famous

2914
02:17:18,830 --> 02:17:15,900
Declassified report detailing the Soviet

2915
02:17:21,890 --> 02:17:18,840
threat there had been actually one one

2916
02:17:23,709 --> 02:17:21,900
written earlier that was very alarmist I

2917
02:17:28,940 --> 02:17:23,719
mean it certainly reads alarmist now

2918
02:17:32,629 --> 02:17:28,950
meaning the when the Pentagon was able

2919
02:17:35,540 --> 02:17:32,639
to access or get sort of a window into

2920
02:17:39,950 --> 02:17:35,550
the Soviet program they were really

2921
02:17:43,250 --> 02:17:39,960
seriously concerned that the Soviets

2922
02:17:45,140 --> 02:17:43,260
were ahead and that is what prompted the

2923
02:17:49,000 --> 02:17:45,150
whole CIA program and then when grass

2924
02:17:52,280 --> 02:17:49,010
gets involved he starts to look at the

2925
02:17:55,100 --> 02:17:52,290
broader research that's going on in the

2926
02:17:57,410 --> 02:17:55,110
Soviet bloc countries and that's when

2927
02:18:00,410 --> 02:17:57,420
they really realize well this is an even

2928
02:18:02,270 --> 02:18:00,420
bigger program than we first thought and

2929
02:18:03,440 --> 02:18:02,280
then that's where you see starting right

2930
02:18:06,740 --> 02:18:03,450
around 1979

2931
02:18:08,900 --> 02:18:06,750
the expansion of the program CIA gives

2932
02:18:11,720 --> 02:18:08,910
up its lead program it's in all kinds of

2933
02:18:15,379 --> 02:18:11,730
problems with the Church investigations

2934
02:18:17,959 --> 02:18:15,389
and DoD takes over and there's a big

2935
02:18:21,379 --> 02:18:17,969
portion of the book that deals with what

2936
02:18:23,360 --> 02:18:21,389
actually happens when the military gets

2937
02:18:25,371 --> 02:18:23,370
involved they are a very different

2938
02:18:27,741 --> 02:18:25,381
animal than the CIA

2939
02:18:29,661 --> 02:18:27,751
now you're referring to Senator Frank

2940
02:18:33,230 --> 02:18:29,671
church of Idaho and the Church Committee

2941
02:18:36,321 --> 02:18:33,240
and the investigations into MKULTRA yes

2942
02:18:37,850 --> 02:18:36,331
and other things you know but that when

2943
02:18:40,090 --> 02:18:37,860
that all stood went down right around

2944
02:18:45,020 --> 02:18:40,100
1975 is when the CIA

2945
02:18:46,940 --> 02:18:45,030
you know dropped the what they called

2946
02:18:49,100 --> 02:18:46,950
the paranormal perception research

2947
02:18:51,350 --> 02:18:49,110
program but that was what they called it

2948
02:18:53,720 --> 02:18:51,360
behind the scenes in these declassified

2949
02:18:55,911 --> 02:18:53,730
documents but it's known as the remote

2950
02:18:58,520 --> 02:18:55,921
viewing program sort of for nomenclature

2951
02:19:00,560 --> 02:18:58,530
reasons but that program officially

2952
02:19:03,380 --> 02:19:00,570
ended in CIA then became a client

2953
02:19:05,690 --> 02:19:03,390
whereas before CIA was in charge of

2954
02:19:09,260 --> 02:19:05,700
research and operations it shifted over

2955
02:19:12,140 --> 02:19:09,270
to the Defense Department and now DoD is

2956
02:19:14,690 --> 02:19:12,150
in charge of it and CIA becomes a client

2957
02:19:16,670 --> 02:19:14,700
along with the military services the

2958
02:19:18,890 --> 02:19:16,680
Joint Chiefs of Staff the National

2959
02:19:21,411 --> 02:19:18,900
Security Council the Secret Service

2960
02:19:22,880 --> 02:19:21,421
I mean the program was huge and

2961
02:19:25,850 --> 02:19:22,890
sprawling and went on at the Defense

2962
02:19:28,871 --> 02:19:25,860
Department for 25 years now here's

2963
02:19:32,031 --> 02:19:28,881
here's the million-dollar question

2964
02:19:32,630 --> 02:19:32,041
I think the program is still going on do

2965
02:19:35,960 --> 02:19:32,640
you

2966
02:19:40,491 --> 02:19:35,970
and it would be some type of black

2967
02:19:42,860 --> 02:19:40,501
project with a new name right well the

2968
02:19:46,190 --> 02:19:42,870
program the program but they are

2969
02:19:51,621 --> 02:19:46,200
absolutely going on today I think the

2970
02:19:54,501 --> 02:19:51,631
question that is were were they

2971
02:19:56,781 --> 02:19:54,511
continuous or did they end and I asked

2972
02:19:57,890 --> 02:19:56,791
that question both about the 60s that we

2973
02:20:00,140 --> 02:19:57,900
talked about earlier you know there's a

2974
02:20:01,551 --> 02:20:00,150
period of time where things kind of go

2975
02:20:03,491 --> 02:20:01,561
dark and that's what I'm super

2976
02:20:07,970 --> 02:20:03,501
interested in I don't have the answer

2977
02:20:09,220 --> 02:20:07,980
we're a program ends goes dark and then

2978
02:20:12,591 --> 02:20:09,230
the lights get turned back on

2979
02:20:14,480 --> 02:20:12,601
metaphorically so was it really dark or

2980
02:20:17,360 --> 02:20:14,490
was it black and when the lights get

2981
02:20:21,680 --> 02:20:17,370
turned back on are we just seeing the

2982
02:20:23,690 --> 02:20:21,690
front of the program or are we seeing

2983
02:20:25,220 --> 02:20:23,700
the extent of the program now based on

2984
02:20:28,430 --> 02:20:25,230
the fact that I've written now four

2985
02:20:31,341 --> 02:20:28,440
books that deal with war weapons u.s.

2986
02:20:35,360 --> 02:20:31,351
national security and secrets and I'm

2987
02:20:37,491 --> 02:20:35,370
always demonstrating back you know

2988
02:20:38,690 --> 02:20:37,501
decades ago this is what you saw on the

2989
02:20:40,160 --> 02:20:38,700
surface but here's

2990
02:20:42,530 --> 02:20:40,170
was really going on we now know from

2991
02:20:44,540 --> 02:20:42,540
declassified documents if you use that

2992
02:20:47,150 --> 02:20:44,550
same logic than you would have to deduce

2993
02:20:49,400 --> 02:20:47,160
that what we see the few projects I was

2994
02:20:52,520 --> 02:20:49,410
able to report on at the Office of Naval

2995
02:20:56,360 --> 02:20:52,530
Research at the Bremen toneau spittle in

2996
02:20:58,390 --> 02:20:56,370
Washington these programs are but a the

2997
02:21:01,580 --> 02:20:58,400
tip of the iceberg that would be my

2998
02:21:06,290 --> 02:21:01,590
hypothesis does the CIA take your phone

2999
02:21:08,150 --> 02:21:06,300
calls you can't call the CIA I can't

3000
02:21:10,310 --> 02:21:08,160
call the CIA

3001
02:21:12,740 --> 02:21:10,320
you can FOIA the CIA and that's another

3002
02:21:15,560 --> 02:21:12,750
very very interesting story because the

3003
02:21:18,830 --> 02:21:15,570
CIA does respond to my Freedom of

3004
02:21:20,600 --> 02:21:18,840
Information Act request and that in and

3005
02:21:22,910 --> 02:21:20,610
of itself is super interesting for this

3006
02:21:25,370 --> 02:21:22,920
reporter because it always makes me

3007
02:21:28,341 --> 02:21:25,380
wonder I mean I file so many FOIA

3008
02:21:32,270 --> 02:21:28,351
requests and every time I get one back

3009
02:21:35,240 --> 02:21:32,280
that is larger than a single page letter

3010
02:21:36,320 --> 02:21:35,250
saying non-responsive which means sorry

3011
02:21:39,020 --> 02:21:36,330
we couldn't find what you're looking for

3012
02:21:41,150 --> 02:21:39,030
every time I get back a big stack of

3013
02:21:43,730 --> 02:21:41,160
documents my first thought is always

3014
02:21:46,790 --> 02:21:43,740
this is fantastic and my second thought

3015
02:21:49,640 --> 02:21:46,800
is like wait a minute why am I getting

3016
02:21:52,190 --> 02:21:49,650
these documents you know in other words

3017
02:21:56,030 --> 02:21:52,200
is this what they will allow to be

3018
02:21:58,640 --> 02:21:56,040
reported or is this what is reportable

3019
02:22:01,761 --> 02:21:58,650
what do you think their response would

3020
02:22:03,890 --> 02:22:01,771
be if you you know you got their PR

3021
02:22:07,940 --> 02:22:03,900
department on the phone and started to

3022
02:22:10,610 --> 02:22:07,950
ask about remote viewing or these types

3023
02:22:14,900 --> 02:22:10,620
of paranormal programs do you think they

3024
02:22:16,820 --> 02:22:14,910
would respond well I mean you could

3025
02:22:18,620 --> 02:22:16,830
never get there in my experience one

3026
02:22:23,171 --> 02:22:18,630
could never get there PR department on

3027
02:22:26,301 --> 02:22:23,181
the phone the closest I ever came to an

3028
02:22:31,070 --> 02:22:26,311
acknowledgement by CIA was a very

3029
02:22:34,160 --> 02:22:31,080
interesting one they wrote a review of

3030
02:22:38,180 --> 02:22:34,170
Operation Paperclip oh shut up

3031
02:22:42,080 --> 02:22:38,190
yes the CIA has a website which you can

3032
02:22:45,020 --> 02:22:42,090
go to see at the CIA library and there's

3033
02:22:49,460 --> 02:22:45,030
an extraordinary wealth of interesting

3034
02:22:51,290 --> 02:22:49,470
information published under the rubric

3035
02:22:52,610 --> 02:22:51,300
of something called studies in

3036
02:22:54,290 --> 02:22:52,620
intelligence

3037
02:22:56,450 --> 02:22:54,300
and these are really interesting

3038
02:22:59,810 --> 02:22:56,460
monographs that are written over the

3039
02:23:01,550 --> 02:22:59,820
years and CIA Declassified them and

3040
02:23:02,990 --> 02:23:01,560
releases them for the public and this is

3041
02:23:04,219 --> 02:23:03,000
where you can find them of course they

3042
02:23:08,179 --> 02:23:04,229
also have a section there where they

3043
02:23:11,810 --> 02:23:08,189
review their current CIA analysts review

3044
02:23:12,469 --> 02:23:11,820
books and films that have to deal with

3045
02:23:14,360 --> 02:23:12,479
the CIA

3046
02:23:17,000 --> 02:23:14,370
they don't review all of them but they

3047
02:23:20,270 --> 02:23:17,010
review ones that they really dislike and

3048
02:23:22,610 --> 02:23:20,280
ones that they like and I was astonished

3049
02:23:24,340 --> 02:23:22,620
when the paper clip they reviewed

3050
02:23:27,500 --> 02:23:24,350
Operation Paperclip and they had very

3051
02:23:30,380 --> 02:23:27,510
favorable things to say about it meaning

3052
02:23:32,420 --> 02:23:30,390
they said Jacobson as a reporter gives

3053
02:23:35,480 --> 02:23:32,430
the public more information than

3054
02:23:38,210 --> 02:23:35,490
paraphrasing that has ever been revealed

3055
02:23:41,990 --> 02:23:38,220
before and then they say this which is

3056
02:23:46,000 --> 02:23:42,000
just so CIA that they that the public

3057
02:23:49,040 --> 02:23:46,010
can presently know I mean they literally

3058
02:23:51,920 --> 02:23:49,050
you know it made me kind of smile it's

3059
02:23:57,650 --> 02:23:51,930
like here's a compliment but you don't

3060
02:24:01,580 --> 02:23:57,660
know Suchet yeah right right well

3061
02:24:05,990 --> 02:24:01,590
there's I want to end on this the the

3062
02:24:08,620 --> 02:24:06,000
novelist experiment because I remember

3063
02:24:12,710 --> 02:24:08,630
reading about this it made the news I

3064
02:24:19,969 --> 02:24:12,720
was a kid that this experiment had been

3065
02:24:21,920 --> 02:24:19,979
conducted with some some Navy guys some

3066
02:24:25,340 --> 02:24:21,930
cadets or you know whatever you call a

3067
02:24:29,030 --> 02:24:25,350
low guy locked in a room on the Nautilus

3068
02:24:34,910 --> 02:24:29,040
and was testing and experimenting with

3069
02:24:38,870 --> 02:24:34,920
with cards did this actually happen so

3070
02:24:42,950 --> 02:24:38,880
the those in the work are actually

3071
02:24:45,139 --> 02:24:42,960
completely divided on this story some

3072
02:24:47,300 --> 02:24:45,149
will say it did happen and others will

3073
02:24:49,370 --> 02:24:47,310
say it absolutely didn't happen and it's

3074
02:24:51,580 --> 02:24:49,380
always interesting to see these mini

3075
02:24:56,050 --> 02:24:51,590
battles going on within different groups

3076
02:24:59,960 --> 02:24:56,060
but I found some documents in the

3077
02:25:02,040 --> 02:24:59,970
Library of Congress that strongly

3078
02:25:05,580 --> 02:25:02,050
suggest it did happen

3079
02:25:10,580 --> 02:25:05,590
based on the fact that the commander of

3080
02:25:13,920 --> 02:25:10,590
the Navy was a friend of Marcella DuPont

3081
02:25:17,189 --> 02:25:13,930
who Horrocks one of KU rx leading

3082
02:25:18,859 --> 02:25:17,199
benefactors and in these letters that

3083
02:25:22,260 --> 02:25:18,869
looked like they hadn't been read since

3084
02:25:25,160 --> 02:25:22,270
1950 she talks about making this

3085
02:25:28,979 --> 02:25:25,170
introduction between this very powerful

3086
02:25:32,240 --> 02:25:28,989
member of the US Navy and 2rh and to me

3087
02:25:37,349 --> 02:25:32,250
that was an interesting albeit

3088
02:25:39,960 --> 02:25:37,359
speculative link but I looking at all

3089
02:25:43,920 --> 02:25:39,970
the documents I would lean toward the

3090
02:25:46,439 --> 02:25:43,930
idea that that some incantation of those

3091
02:25:49,679 --> 02:25:46,449
experiments ESP experiments did happen I

3092
02:25:53,580 --> 02:25:49,689
think it did too it made it made the

3093
02:25:58,559 --> 02:25:53,590
news I remember hearing about it and it

3094
02:26:02,399 --> 02:25:58,569
was represented to me when I heard it

3095
02:26:04,740 --> 02:26:02,409
that it was it was factual right and and

3096
02:26:06,929 --> 02:26:04,750
and the lead one of the one of the

3097
02:26:08,130 --> 02:26:06,939
military men involved in it his initial

3098
02:26:10,800 --> 02:26:08,140
thing was oh yeah we did that you know

3099
02:26:13,019 --> 02:26:10,810
it was kind of like and then immediately

3100
02:26:15,300 --> 02:26:13,029
he changed his story you know and that's

3101
02:26:17,490 --> 02:26:15,310
where you get into kind of the the

3102
02:26:19,380 --> 02:26:17,500
mythology of Roswell right right you

3103
02:26:21,870 --> 02:26:19,390
argue on the other side of the argument

3104
02:26:24,569 --> 02:26:21,880
which suddenly if suddenly a military

3105
02:26:26,729 --> 02:26:24,579
person changes their story under you

3106
02:26:29,519 --> 02:26:26,739
know then you interpret that was done

3107
02:26:32,939 --> 02:26:29,529
under pressure and so you know it's this

3108
02:26:35,760 --> 02:26:32,949
splintering and fracturing of stories

3109
02:26:37,950 --> 02:26:35,770
that I think makes them very interesting

3110
02:26:40,200 --> 02:26:37,960
to look at and I try and look at them

3111
02:26:42,960 --> 02:26:40,210
with a bird's eye a bird's eye view

3112
02:26:46,410 --> 02:26:42,970
which I think can link us all the way

3113
02:26:49,319 --> 02:26:46,420
back to the analogy of fake news what is

3114
02:26:49,920 --> 02:26:49,329
going on today has been going on for

3115
02:26:53,880 --> 02:26:49,930
decades

3116
02:26:57,450 --> 02:26:53,890
this is tradecraft when it comes to the

3117
02:26:59,490 --> 02:26:57,460
intelligence community and the United

3118
02:27:02,250 --> 02:26:59,500
States Department of Defense and we

3119
02:27:04,519 --> 02:27:02,260
should never underestimate that what we

3120
02:27:06,719 --> 02:27:04,529
think we know is only part of the story

3121
02:27:10,590 --> 02:27:06,729
what's your next book what are you

3122
02:27:12,929 --> 02:27:10,600
working on now I'm going back to hard

3123
02:27:15,750 --> 02:27:12,939
science and the CIA

3124
02:27:17,700 --> 02:27:15,760
that's all I can say I know it's going

3125
02:27:21,630 --> 02:27:17,710
to be great I can the book is very

3126
02:27:23,969 --> 02:27:21,640
kinetic is it real there's a lot of

3127
02:27:26,100 --> 02:27:23,979
action oh and you're just going to leave

3128
02:27:28,770 --> 02:27:26,110
us with that thank you so much then now

3129
02:27:30,480 --> 02:27:28,780
Annie Jacobs ENCOM is the best place for

3130
02:27:33,030 --> 02:27:30,490
everybody to not only see what you're

3131
02:27:35,790 --> 02:27:33,040
doing and where you're speaking and and

3132
02:27:38,730 --> 02:27:35,800
so forth but they can get phenomena and

3133
02:27:40,380 --> 02:27:38,740
all of your books there right sure thing

3134
02:27:42,480 --> 02:27:40,390
thank you so much Annie have a great

3135
02:27:44,910 --> 02:27:42,490
safe sleep with one eye open now

3136
02:27:46,139 --> 02:27:44,920
thank you having thank you for

3137
02:27:50,100 --> 02:27:46,149
everything that you do thank you so much

3138
02:27:52,469 --> 02:27:50,110
Annie Annie Jacobsen everybody again the

3139
02:27:55,320 --> 02:27:52,479
book is phenomenon the secret history of

3140
02:27:57,830 --> 02:27:55,330
the US government's investigations into

3141
02:28:00,240 --> 02:27:57,840
extrasensory perception and

3142
02:28:03,000 --> 02:28:00,250
psychokinesis the website is Annie

3143
02:28:05,340 --> 02:28:03,010
Jacobson dot-com the links are over a

3144
02:28:07,830 --> 02:28:05,350
Jimmy Church radio calm you can follow

3145
02:28:10,440 --> 02:28:07,840
Annie on Twitter at Annie

3146
02:28:12,540 --> 02:28:10,450
Jacobson what a conversation tonight I

3147
02:28:14,639 --> 02:28:12,550
can't wait for the next book Annie

3148
02:28:17,630 --> 02:28:14,649
Jacobson this is fade to black I'm you

3149
02:28:34,929 --> 02:28:17,640
know Jimmy Church I'll be right back

3150
02:28:37,290 --> 02:28:34,939
[Music]

3151
02:28:37,300 --> 02:28:43,210
yes you

3152
02:28:47,150 --> 02:28:45,080
hey what up Josh

3153
02:28:50,390 --> 02:28:47,160
Viveca box here and you are listening to

3154
02:28:56,511 --> 02:28:50,400
my boy Jimmy turns on Jimmy George radio

3155
02:29:04,700 --> 02:28:56,521
calm this my popular opinion reading a

3156
02:29:06,980 --> 02:29:04,710
book will not make you smarter balance

3157
02:29:09,410 --> 02:29:06,990
of nature's fruits and veggies I had

3158
02:29:11,030 --> 02:29:09,420
countin both my knees and it's gone I

3159
02:29:12,801 --> 02:29:11,040
want pretty stupid I should have ordered

3160
02:29:14,990 --> 02:29:12,811
it like you know 15 years ago everything

3161
02:29:16,850 --> 02:29:15,000
I ever gotten my it's the most effective

3162
02:29:19,460 --> 02:29:16,860
product that I've ever bought in my life

3163
02:29:22,220 --> 02:29:19,470
he had eczema on his hand and it cracked

3164
02:29:24,200 --> 02:29:22,230
and it cracked for years he did anything

3165
02:29:27,080 --> 02:29:24,210
from doctor every cream everything and

3166
02:29:29,210 --> 02:29:27,090
three months on the veggies and fruit it

3167
02:29:31,190 --> 02:29:29,220
was gone they're just awesome they keep

3168
02:29:32,841 --> 02:29:31,200
asking me what am i doing I told them

3169
02:29:34,790 --> 02:29:32,851
what I did with my cholesterol I had the

3170
02:29:37,881 --> 02:29:34,800
blood test right and it went down a

3171
02:29:39,530 --> 02:29:37,891
hundred point two sixty two now it's 162

3172
02:29:42,230 --> 02:29:39,540
everything is just perfect

3173
02:29:44,540 --> 02:29:42,240
call now to find out how to get your

3174
02:29:49,011 --> 02:29:44,550
free month supply of balance of nature

3175
02:29:53,120 --> 02:29:49,021
call 800 two four six eight 750 one

3176
02:29:57,740 --> 02:29:53,130
that's 800 two four six eight 750 one

3177
02:30:00,980 --> 02:29:57,750
call now 800 two four six eight 750 one

3178
02:30:05,390 --> 02:30:00,990
or go online to balance of nature calm

3179
02:30:06,890 --> 02:30:05,400
use promo code TSL with odors mold and

3180
02:30:08,570 --> 02:30:06,900
mildew describe your basement or

3181
02:30:10,580 --> 02:30:08,580
crawlspace it doesn't have to be that

3182
02:30:12,560 --> 02:30:10,590
way transform them into a fresh healthy

3183
02:30:15,110 --> 02:30:12,570
usable one with a technologically

3184
02:30:17,060 --> 02:30:15,120
advanced wave moisture control units the

3185
02:30:19,190 --> 02:30:17,070
computerized operation maximizes

3186
02:30:21,290 --> 02:30:19,200
moisture control and also expels harmful

3187
02:30:23,450 --> 02:30:21,300
radon combustion gases and numerous

3188
02:30:25,250 --> 02:30:23,460
other pollutants dehumidifiers are old

3189
02:30:27,740 --> 02:30:25,260
technology that do nothing for air

3190
02:30:30,080 --> 02:30:27,750
quality and wastes energy wave units are

3191
02:30:31,761 --> 02:30:30,090
intelligent self monitoring do not need

3192
02:30:33,801 --> 02:30:31,771
maintenance and will save you hundreds

3193
02:30:35,421 --> 02:30:33,811
in electricity wave units are still

3194
02:30:37,551 --> 02:30:35,431
running effectively over 15 years

3195
02:30:39,470 --> 02:30:37,561
they've been tested and installed in

3196
02:30:41,690 --> 02:30:39,480
public and military housing and by

3197
02:30:43,671 --> 02:30:41,700
property managers nationwide buy a unit

3198
02:30:45,171 --> 02:30:43,681
now and if your home is not fresher and

3199
02:30:47,270 --> 02:30:45,181
drier you can return it for a full

3200
02:30:48,680 --> 02:30:47,280
refund for up to 12 months what have you

3201
02:30:52,859 --> 02:30:48,690
got to lose call now

3202
02:30:56,309 --> 02:30:52,869
188 6 1/8 wave 1 8 8 8 6

3203
02:31:07,409 --> 02:30:56,319
wav e or visit my dry home calm

3204
02:31:10,559 --> 02:31:07,419
that's my dry home calm what's up bait

3205
02:31:13,739 --> 02:31:10,569
or not studio dumb loves fade the black

3206
02:31:15,840 --> 02:31:13,749
and f2b audience for so much that they

3207
02:31:18,210 --> 02:31:15,850
have put together the ultimate stereo

3208
02:31:19,949 --> 02:31:18,220
Bluetooth system they've done it just

3209
02:31:23,340 --> 02:31:19,959
for you man

3210
02:31:26,519 --> 02:31:23,350
check this out the studio dome SBB two

3211
02:31:29,939 --> 02:31:26,529
stereo system is here it's featuring two

3212
02:31:32,279 --> 02:31:29,949
studio boombox to SBB two wireless

3213
02:31:34,739 --> 02:31:32,289
Bluetooth speakers pack in its own

3214
02:31:36,869 --> 02:31:34,749
custom heart okay this studio dome

3215
02:31:39,779 --> 02:31:36,879
system features the very latest in

3216
02:31:43,139 --> 02:31:39,789
stereo bluetooth technology the two full

3217
02:31:45,599 --> 02:31:43,149
range boom boxes are in true Wireless

3218
02:31:47,880 --> 02:31:45,609
stereos you've got to hear this kids

3219
02:31:50,869 --> 02:31:47,890
amazing it's just a hundred and twenty

3220
02:31:54,029 --> 02:31:50,879
nine bucks and use the promo code gt-r

3221
02:31:56,699 --> 02:31:54,039
tws and you'll also get free shipping

3222
02:31:59,340 --> 02:31:56,709
it's simple just go to Jimmy Church

3223
02:32:01,530 --> 02:31:59,350
radio.com click on the studio dome

3224
02:32:10,910 --> 02:32:01,540
banner gobekli tepe

3225
02:32:25,170 --> 02:32:14,639
it's not a lifetime we chose we were

3226
02:32:44,309 --> 02:32:25,180
born this way k GRA radio.com this is k

3227
02:32:44,849 --> 02:32:44,319
j dr jimmy shirts radio cha cha alright

3228
02:32:47,700 --> 02:32:44,859
welcome back

3229
02:32:50,309 --> 02:32:47,710
fade to black thank you Andy Jacobson

3230
02:32:56,070 --> 02:32:50,319
the book is phenomenon any Jacob

3231
02:32:58,679 --> 02:32:56,080
send.com man it's an unbelievable read

3232
02:33:00,990 --> 02:32:58,689
you've got to get the book just go to

3233
02:33:03,510 --> 02:33:01,000
any Jacobson's website the links are

3234
02:33:06,889 --> 02:33:03,520
right there 2 meters radio calm and and

3235
02:33:11,750 --> 02:33:06,899
pick that one up it is it is all that

3236
02:33:17,670 --> 02:33:11,760
man the first I'm going to say this the

3237
02:33:19,800 --> 02:33:17,680
first 60 pages are unbelievable and it's

3238
02:33:23,880 --> 02:33:19,810
a set up for the rest of the book and

3239
02:33:26,689 --> 02:33:23,890
I'm telling you you read this and you

3240
02:33:29,729 --> 02:33:26,699
and you just find out about the

3241
02:33:32,309 --> 02:33:29,739
government's research back into this and

3242
02:33:34,469 --> 02:33:32,319
us it's absolutely incredible

3243
02:33:36,809 --> 02:33:34,479
it's unbelievable this portion of the

3244
02:33:40,200 --> 02:33:36,819
show is brought to you by River Moon

3245
02:33:42,809 --> 02:33:40,210
coffee makers of the fade to black blend

3246
02:33:45,330 --> 02:33:42,819
have you seen have you seen Carol

3247
02:33:48,059 --> 02:33:45,340
Perrault new painting would fade to

3248
02:33:49,800 --> 02:33:48,069
black blend in it just go right now

3249
02:33:52,320 --> 02:33:49,810
click on the river moon coffee banner

3250
02:33:54,360 --> 02:33:52,330
over to me church radio calm use the

3251
02:33:57,479 --> 02:33:54,370
promo code F to be blend and you will

3252
02:33:59,040 --> 02:33:57,489
get 15% off of your order River Moon

3253
02:34:01,620 --> 02:33:59,050
coffee is going to be a contact in the

3254
02:34:04,340 --> 02:34:01,630
desert it's coming up I can't believe it

3255
02:34:07,019 --> 02:34:04,350
it's it's less than three weeks away

3256
02:34:08,939 --> 02:34:07,029
today is the first it is May 19th

3257
02:34:11,429 --> 02:34:08,949
through the 22nd in Joshua Tree

3258
02:34:13,810 --> 02:34:11,439
California River moon coffee is going to

3259
02:34:16,060 --> 02:34:13,820
be there you want to be there

3260
02:34:19,060 --> 02:34:16,070
- all right click on the banners over a

3261
02:34:20,860 --> 02:34:19,070
2 meter radio calm for contacting the

3262
02:34:24,100 --> 02:34:20,870
desert and all of the information that

3263
02:34:25,841 --> 02:34:24,110
you need is right there hotels food is

3264
02:34:27,791 --> 02:34:25,851
important right they've got great

3265
02:34:30,841 --> 02:34:27,801
vendors and all of that but they've also

3266
02:34:33,791 --> 02:34:30,851
got an amazing cafeteria there too okay

3267
02:34:37,330 --> 02:34:33,801
all right and that's the good news we've

3268
02:34:39,011 --> 02:34:37,340
got a coffee vendor a real one a contact

3269
02:34:41,551 --> 02:34:39,021
in the desert this year really looking

3270
02:34:44,080 --> 02:34:41,561
forward to it all right back to and

3271
02:34:47,291 --> 02:34:44,090
phone lines are open three two three

3272
02:34:49,091 --> 02:34:47,301
eight to five five zero four five three

3273
02:34:53,650 --> 02:34:49,101
two three eight to five five zero four

3274
02:34:56,560 --> 02:34:53,660
or five a couple of things I want to

3275
02:34:58,990 --> 02:34:56,570
back up we didn't we we had so much to

3276
02:35:01,421 --> 02:34:59,000
talk about tonight and and it was it was

3277
02:35:03,820 --> 02:35:01,431
back to back for two hours but there was

3278
02:35:05,770 --> 02:35:03,830
one thing that we spent a little bit of

3279
02:35:07,801 --> 02:35:05,780
time on but I want to explain this to

3280
02:35:11,230 --> 02:35:07,811
you when we were talking about fake news

3281
02:35:14,591 --> 02:35:11,240
Great Britain and Germany and the United

3282
02:35:21,041 --> 02:35:14,601
States this is what was going on back

3283
02:35:22,631 --> 02:35:21,051
then the the the the government here in

3284
02:35:26,801 --> 02:35:22,641
the United States and and Great Britain

3285
02:35:29,740 --> 02:35:26,811
suddenly realized that they could start

3286
02:35:34,620 --> 02:35:29,750
to put out fake news stories out there

3287
02:35:38,131 --> 02:35:34,630
to do a few different things to

3288
02:35:41,020 --> 02:35:38,141
manipulate us here in the United States

3289
02:35:42,220 --> 02:35:41,030
and and Great Britain as well more so

3290
02:35:44,051 --> 02:35:42,230
here in the United States because we

3291
02:35:45,490 --> 02:35:44,061
hadn't entered the war yet but there was

3292
02:35:49,600 --> 02:35:45,500
more to that I'll get to that in a

3293
02:35:51,280 --> 02:35:49,610
second but influence Germany because

3294
02:35:52,870 --> 02:35:51,290
Germany is reading the newspapers -

3295
02:35:56,370 --> 02:35:52,880
Germany is listening to the radio

3296
02:36:00,011 --> 02:35:56,380
Germany is checking things out and and

3297
02:36:03,820 --> 02:36:00,021
has at that time and Himmler were so

3298
02:36:07,360 --> 02:36:03,830
into the supernatural this is what

3299
02:36:09,541 --> 02:36:07,370
Germany figured out I mean a Great

3300
02:36:16,360 --> 02:36:09,551
Britain figured out that they could

3301
02:36:21,131 --> 02:36:16,370
create fake astrological charts that

3302
02:36:22,841 --> 02:36:21,141
were nearly accurate and that nobody

3303
02:36:25,330 --> 02:36:22,851
would know the difference but if they

3304
02:36:27,429 --> 02:36:25,340
could start publishing this and and talk

3305
02:36:31,270 --> 02:36:27,439
about and predicting

3306
02:36:35,650 --> 02:36:31,280
the future and and events that that

3307
02:36:37,210 --> 02:36:35,660
would sway Germany and so what was going

3308
02:36:40,800 --> 02:36:37,220
on this is what they did they actually

3309
02:36:44,490 --> 02:36:40,810
went and printed a magazine a magazine

3310
02:36:52,150 --> 02:36:44,500
on the paranormal and on psychics in

3311
02:36:54,940 --> 02:36:52,160
Germany that Germany would see and think

3312
02:36:58,060 --> 02:36:54,950
that it was an underground publication

3313
02:37:00,820 --> 02:36:58,070
with this secret information in it and

3314
02:37:03,370 --> 02:37:00,830
the charts and as it turned out I think

3315
02:37:04,000 --> 02:37:03,380
about this for a second it actually

3316
02:37:08,920 --> 02:37:04,010
worked

3317
02:37:11,950 --> 02:37:08,930
it freaked Germany out printing a fake

3318
02:37:16,090 --> 02:37:11,960
magazine that was purported to be

3319
02:37:19,410 --> 02:37:16,100
underground and German the Nazis freaked

3320
02:37:22,150 --> 02:37:19,420
out and they started reading the charts

3321
02:37:26,770 --> 02:37:22,160
starting to dictate what they were doing

3322
02:37:31,090 --> 02:37:26,780
and reacted to it how trippy is that now

3323
02:37:32,410 --> 02:37:31,100
at the same time they get a psychic over

3324
02:37:36,130 --> 02:37:32,420
here in the United States which Annie

3325
02:37:39,429 --> 02:37:36,140
and I talked about that was you know

3326
02:37:41,080 --> 02:37:39,439
read by of the numbers are crazy the

3327
02:37:43,150 --> 02:37:41,090
numbers are great but but read like by

3328
02:37:44,710 --> 02:37:43,160
30 million people a day in the United

3329
02:37:47,440 --> 02:37:44,720
States think about that for a second

3330
02:37:49,120 --> 02:37:47,450
that kind of influence 30 million people

3331
02:37:52,480 --> 02:37:49,130
a day think about the population back

3332
02:37:55,990 --> 02:37:52,490
then right so it was like oh one of

3333
02:37:57,730 --> 02:37:56,000
every three was 150 million when out of

3334
02:38:01,179 --> 02:37:57,740
four one out of five Americans were

3335
02:38:02,950 --> 02:38:01,189
reading this and the the predictions

3336
02:38:06,969 --> 02:38:02,960
like we said was almost like not

3337
02:38:12,730 --> 02:38:06,979
Nostradamus that this was being fed by

3338
02:38:14,740 --> 02:38:12,740
the by mi5 out of Great Britain into the

3339
02:38:17,380 --> 02:38:14,750
United States that this psychic was an

3340
02:38:20,530 --> 02:38:17,390
agent feeding him information about

3341
02:38:22,900 --> 02:38:20,540
actual events he's predicting them in

3342
02:38:25,360 --> 02:38:22,910
the paper we are reading it here in the

3343
02:38:27,190 --> 02:38:25,370
United States tripping on it and then

3344
02:38:30,100 --> 02:38:27,200
three or four days later these events

3345
02:38:32,080 --> 02:38:30,110
actually went down and happened think

3346
02:38:34,300 --> 02:38:32,090
about that for a second and we're

3347
02:38:37,480 --> 02:38:34,310
dealing with fake news today and we are

3348
02:38:38,761 --> 02:38:37,490
wondering about what is real and what is

3349
02:38:42,301 --> 02:38:38,771
not

3350
02:38:44,580 --> 02:38:42,311
this is something that is real this

3351
02:38:46,320 --> 02:38:44,590
actually went on and they didn't have

3352
02:38:50,310 --> 02:38:46,330
any issues with it

3353
02:38:52,650 --> 02:38:50,320
think about that and and when we talk

3354
02:38:55,080 --> 02:38:52,660
about fake news today and mainstream

3355
02:38:59,970 --> 02:38:55,090
media and the CIA being involved all of

3356
02:39:04,110 --> 02:38:59,980
this all of this is just well practiced

3357
02:39:06,421 --> 02:39:04,120
well-oiled think about that it's an

3358
02:39:09,810 --> 02:39:06,431
unbelievable story and it actually went

3359
02:39:12,480 --> 02:39:09,820
down that way back back then in in World

3360
02:39:16,350 --> 02:39:12,490
War two when they were trying to figure

3361
02:39:17,990 --> 02:39:16,360
out the the power of the press the power

3362
02:39:22,230 --> 02:39:18,000
of the media the power of television

3363
02:39:25,230 --> 02:39:22,240
newsreels radio and the ability to get

3364
02:39:29,070 --> 02:39:25,240
propaganda out there and and and fake

3365
02:39:32,671 --> 02:39:29,080
news was going on at the same time when

3366
02:39:35,011 --> 02:39:32,681
it was also Spy vs spy right and they

3367
02:39:36,990 --> 02:39:35,021
had all of these underground networks

3368
02:39:40,740 --> 02:39:37,000
that were going on in all of the

3369
02:39:42,900 --> 02:39:40,750
countries around the world everybody was

3370
02:39:45,270 --> 02:39:42,910
a spy he didn't know if it was the

3371
02:39:48,841 --> 02:39:45,280
Gestapo of United States of their

3372
02:39:52,500 --> 02:39:48,851
Japanese Great Britain Germany France

3373
02:39:56,540 --> 02:39:52,510
you just didn't know he didn't know and

3374
02:40:01,140 --> 02:39:56,550
all of this started to get figured out

3375
02:40:03,930 --> 02:40:01,150
think about that you know and so moving

3376
02:40:05,341 --> 02:40:03,940
on and and he brought this up and it's a

3377
02:40:09,180 --> 02:40:05,351
really really good point

3378
02:40:11,490 --> 02:40:09,190
then as everybody was starting to figure

3379
02:40:14,280 --> 02:40:11,500
out how to do this and how to manipulate

3380
02:40:17,850 --> 02:40:14,290
Minds with with the press and with mass

3381
02:40:22,320 --> 02:40:17,860
media and telling half truths and and

3382
02:40:25,921 --> 02:40:22,330
untruths Roswell happens think about

3383
02:40:30,060 --> 02:40:25,931
that it's really really really trippy

3384
02:40:31,591 --> 02:40:30,070
now then and then you fold in by the way

3385
02:40:35,100 --> 02:40:31,601
a Peter Levin is going to be with us

3386
02:40:38,310 --> 02:40:35,110
next week when you go and look at the

3387
02:40:41,790 --> 02:40:38,320
nine and and what happened there and the

3388
02:40:46,770 --> 02:40:41,800
connections with the CIA the FBI j.edgar

3389
02:40:50,100 --> 02:40:46,780
hoover the a surd's the young's the

3390
02:40:50,860 --> 02:40:50,110
dupont this huge money that was evolved

3391
02:40:53,440 --> 02:40:50,870
there

3392
02:40:56,920 --> 02:40:53,450
- hurric who is in the middle of it this

3393
02:40:59,950 --> 02:40:56,930
all had all fits together when we say

3394
02:41:03,220 --> 02:40:59,960
that everything is connected it truly is

3395
02:41:07,330 --> 02:41:03,230
it's an unbelievable book phenomenon it

3396
02:41:12,250 --> 02:41:07,340
is an unbelievable read and with that

3397
02:41:14,200 --> 02:41:12,260
now with all of that that is is our pass

3398
02:41:17,650 --> 02:41:14,210
in our history and that we need to study

3399
02:41:20,410 --> 02:41:17,660
this and we need to to understand why we

3400
02:41:23,140 --> 02:41:20,420
are where we are today I mentioned this

3401
02:41:26,530 --> 02:41:23,150
at the beginning of the show today Fox

3402
02:41:29,860 --> 02:41:26,540
News co-president co-president bill

3403
02:41:31,930 --> 02:41:29,870
shine resigned and he's the latest

3404
02:41:34,301 --> 02:41:31,940
casualty in this scandal that's plagued

3405
02:41:36,551 --> 02:41:34,311
Fox in his parent company 21st Century

3406
02:41:39,370 --> 02:41:36,561
Fox since last summer

3407
02:41:45,761 --> 02:41:39,380
shines departure announced earlier today

3408
02:41:47,591 --> 02:41:45,771
was that he just resigned now this needs

3409
02:41:51,190 --> 02:41:47,601
to be discussed for a lot of different

3410
02:41:55,480 --> 02:41:51,200
reasons number one shine has been with

3411
02:41:58,841 --> 02:41:55,490
Fox since its inception in 1996 and he

3412
02:42:02,470 --> 02:41:58,851
was also the right-hand man for their

3413
02:42:04,480 --> 02:42:02,480
news chief Roger Ailes now aside from

3414
02:42:06,640 --> 02:42:04,490
the sex scandals and everything else

3415
02:42:09,810 --> 02:42:06,650
that Roger Ailes got himself tied up

3416
02:42:13,091 --> 02:42:09,820
with and Bill O'Reilly got tied up with

3417
02:42:15,910 --> 02:42:13,101
and shine who was part of the cover-up

3418
02:42:18,761 --> 02:42:15,920
and he knew of everything up until this

3419
02:42:20,950 --> 02:42:18,771
point he was Ailes right-hand guy he

3420
02:42:22,750 --> 02:42:20,960
knew everything that was going on but

3421
02:42:27,160 --> 02:42:22,760
that's part of the resigning but that

3422
02:42:31,960 --> 02:42:27,170
isn't really the real news here what

3423
02:42:34,000 --> 02:42:31,970
does Fox do about its future now going

3424
02:42:35,320 --> 02:42:34,010
back to the mainstream media and

3425
02:42:38,350 --> 02:42:35,330
something that we have been talking

3426
02:42:40,841 --> 02:42:38,360
about for a few years now on this show

3427
02:42:43,600 --> 02:42:40,851
all of this stuff that we have been

3428
02:42:49,120 --> 02:42:43,610
discussing has come to pass and what do

3429
02:42:51,580 --> 02:42:49,130
I mean by that the the bias of all of

3430
02:42:54,130 --> 02:42:51,590
the networks out there slanting their

3431
02:43:00,190 --> 02:42:54,140
news coverage in one direction or

3432
02:43:02,620 --> 02:43:00,200
another is obvious now what happens with

3433
02:43:04,690 --> 02:43:02,630
Fox now moving forward now that Ailes

3434
02:43:07,390 --> 02:43:04,700
and shine are gone

3435
02:43:10,110 --> 02:43:07,400
are they going to connect we have to

3436
02:43:13,420 --> 02:43:10,120
deal with the fake news side of things

3437
02:43:15,400 --> 02:43:13,430
and it goes it goes across the board we

3438
02:43:18,250 --> 02:43:15,410
mentioned Sean Hannity earlier Sean

3439
02:43:21,040 --> 02:43:18,260
Hannity got caught blamed it on his

3440
02:43:26,410 --> 02:43:21,050
producers but but put fake news out

3441
02:43:29,860 --> 02:43:26,420
there did it and so that enables us to

3442
02:43:33,460 --> 02:43:29,870
sit back and go hey wait a minute these

3443
02:43:34,960 --> 02:43:33,470
mainstream guys here are our reporting

3444
02:43:36,550 --> 02:43:34,970
fake news and then going back and maybe

3445
02:43:39,130 --> 02:43:36,560
correcting themselves later but the

3446
02:43:42,820 --> 02:43:39,140
damage is done you have caused the

3447
02:43:45,960 --> 02:43:42,830
emotional movement of your listeners to

3448
02:43:48,550 --> 02:43:45,970
swing one way or the other right now

3449
02:43:51,490 --> 02:43:48,560
what does this do with the direction of

3450
02:43:54,969 --> 02:43:51,500
Fox the reason why I bring that up

3451
02:43:58,480 --> 02:43:54,979
obviously CNN is the the Democratic news

3452
02:44:00,280 --> 02:43:58,490
outlet right the the liberal left and

3453
02:44:03,600 --> 02:44:00,290
then and we have Fox with the extreme

3454
02:44:07,690 --> 02:44:03,610
far right and O'Reilly O'Reilly gone

3455
02:44:09,550 --> 02:44:07,700
Ailes is gone now shine is gone are they

3456
02:44:12,460 --> 02:44:09,560
going to continue the path that they

3457
02:44:15,490 --> 02:44:12,470
started back in 1996 or are they going

3458
02:44:18,730 --> 02:44:15,500
to change their direction and I bring

3459
02:44:22,810 --> 02:44:18,740
that up because over the last couple of

3460
02:44:28,990 --> 02:44:22,820
weeks I have noticed a genuine tone

3461
02:44:31,960 --> 02:44:29,000
change in in Fox and I think that for

3462
02:44:34,050 --> 02:44:31,970
their dedicated viewer and listener base

3463
02:44:38,650 --> 02:44:34,060
that they're kind of tripping right now

3464
02:44:41,460 --> 02:44:38,660
because I've seen it right the obvious

3465
02:44:47,170 --> 02:44:41,470
slanting in one direction or another

3466
02:44:49,870 --> 02:44:47,180
hard for Fox is starting to change so

3467
02:44:52,330 --> 02:44:49,880
what what how is this gonna affect

3468
02:44:55,440 --> 02:44:52,340
moving forward and are they going to

3469
02:44:59,770 --> 02:44:55,450
start to take a look at a harder look at

3470
02:45:01,270 --> 02:44:59,780
the reporting of of news that may not

3471
02:45:05,140 --> 02:45:01,280
necessarily be a hundred percent

3472
02:45:07,900 --> 02:45:05,150
accurate if the same goes for CNN by the

3473
02:45:12,880 --> 02:45:07,910
way now CNN is not going through these

3474
02:45:14,469 --> 02:45:12,890
scandals that Fox's I mean I would all

3475
02:45:17,580 --> 02:45:14,479
wouldn't surprise me if something did

3476
02:45:20,969 --> 02:45:17,590
happen over there but but

3477
02:45:23,519 --> 02:45:20,979
what if that same shake-up happened now

3478
02:45:26,189 --> 02:45:23,529
all of this is connected to the

3479
02:45:28,620 --> 02:45:26,199
Correspondents Dinner that happened over

3480
02:45:30,899 --> 02:45:28,630
the weekend now I don't know if you've

3481
02:45:35,490 --> 02:45:30,909
seen the highlights of it but the

3482
02:45:39,149 --> 02:45:35,500
Correspondents Dinner had had a definite

3483
02:45:42,240 --> 02:45:39,159
definite tone to it this past weekend

3484
02:45:45,330 --> 02:45:42,250
and one of them has been the accusations

3485
02:45:47,540 --> 02:45:45,340
of fake news by this program and others

3486
02:45:51,479 --> 02:45:47,550
and even our sitting president right now

3487
02:45:54,389 --> 02:45:51,489
that none of the mainstream media can be

3488
02:45:56,939 --> 02:45:54,399
trusted and that the correspondents out

3489
02:46:02,819 --> 02:45:56,949
there can't be trusted anymore and that

3490
02:46:04,830 --> 02:46:02,829
theme there was that the the freedom of

3491
02:46:07,920 --> 02:46:04,840
the press and the right of a free press

3492
02:46:11,540 --> 02:46:07,930
is the foundation of this country and

3493
02:46:14,780 --> 02:46:11,550
that they feel that they haven't

3494
02:46:18,599 --> 02:46:14,790
misrepresented anything now I think that

3495
02:46:22,229 --> 02:46:18,609
their their attitude is accidents can

3496
02:46:24,660 --> 02:46:22,239
happen in news you must and in

3497
02:46:26,969 --> 02:46:24,670
journalism and and and when you are

3498
02:46:30,000 --> 02:46:26,979
reporting you must vet your sources

3499
02:46:32,729 --> 02:46:30,010
three times at a minimum you've got a

3500
02:46:35,670 --> 02:46:32,739
vet your source no matter who's

3501
02:46:36,479 --> 02:46:35,680
reporting first correct you need to vet

3502
02:46:40,200 --> 02:46:36,489
your sources

3503
02:46:42,660 --> 02:46:40,210
now with that like anything in the world

3504
02:46:47,309 --> 02:46:42,670
accidents can happen human error comes

3505
02:46:49,979 --> 02:46:47,319
into play but today the the ability to

3506
02:46:52,530 --> 02:46:49,989
have news out there so rapid fire in

3507
02:46:55,139 --> 02:46:52,540
your face and so quickly that being

3508
02:46:57,359 --> 02:46:55,149
first is more important now than it ever

3509
02:46:59,849 --> 02:46:57,369
has been in the past and it's always

3510
02:47:02,160 --> 02:46:59,859
been important to be first with a

3511
02:47:04,200 --> 02:47:02,170
breaking story you want to be that guy

3512
02:47:07,349 --> 02:47:04,210
or that girl that breaks a story first

3513
02:47:10,950 --> 02:47:07,359
but you need to vet your sources and now

3514
02:47:13,740 --> 02:47:10,960
because of not only Trump but but Lady

3515
02:47:15,840 --> 02:47:13,750
Hillary and politicians and people and

3516
02:47:19,439 --> 02:47:15,850
police and just everybody's talking

3517
02:47:22,859 --> 02:47:19,449
about big news so now we don't know who

3518
02:47:25,649 --> 02:47:22,869
to trust and we've had this huge upset

3519
02:47:27,929 --> 02:47:25,659
now going down over at Fox and and and

3520
02:47:29,790 --> 02:47:27,939
and what what is happening there and the

3521
02:47:30,780 --> 02:47:29,800
Correspondents Dinner where for the

3522
02:47:34,380 --> 02:47:30,790
first time that I

3523
02:47:38,761 --> 02:47:34,390
in a while that our president didn't

3524
02:47:40,470 --> 02:47:38,771
attend so what does that say and now the

3525
02:47:42,840 --> 02:47:40,480
the correspondents of mainstream media

3526
02:47:47,040 --> 02:47:42,850
are back on their heels and I get that

3527
02:47:50,490 --> 02:47:47,050
and I understand why so is there going

3528
02:47:53,040 --> 02:47:50,500
to be a shift change a paradigm shift in

3529
02:47:55,560 --> 02:47:53,050
the way that things are reported in the

3530
02:47:58,230 --> 02:47:55,570
future is it going to be more accurate

3531
02:48:00,540 --> 02:47:58,240
is it going to be less bias are we going

3532
02:48:03,330 --> 02:48:00,550
to see I mean this are we going to see a

3533
02:48:06,030 --> 02:48:03,340
shift in CNN are we going to see a shift

3534
02:48:09,480 --> 02:48:06,040
in Fox where that everything starts to

3535
02:48:13,170 --> 02:48:09,490
move more towards the center and doesn't

3536
02:48:16,410 --> 02:48:13,180
buy us on one side or the other now one

3537
02:48:18,240 --> 02:48:16,420
thing that I need to make very clear is

3538
02:48:20,250 --> 02:48:18,250
that although the show isn't about

3539
02:48:23,040 --> 02:48:20,260
politics it is about the conspiracy

3540
02:48:25,140 --> 02:48:23,050
behind politics and the media and the

3541
02:48:27,540 --> 02:48:25,150
way that we are fed news and the way

3542
02:48:32,070 --> 02:48:27,550
that all of us need to be very concerned

3543
02:48:35,011 --> 02:48:32,080
about what we read what we see and and

3544
02:48:36,120 --> 02:48:35,021
and react in the right way it's very

3545
02:48:38,310 --> 02:48:36,130
very important

3546
02:48:42,511 --> 02:48:38,320
I have asked everybody on this show

3547
02:48:45,110 --> 02:48:42,521
three years to to go ahead and read and

3548
02:48:48,600 --> 02:48:45,120
you know but but don't take it serious

3549
02:48:51,270 --> 02:48:48,610
don't or just stop - stop with the

3550
02:48:53,460 --> 02:48:51,280
mainstream media and go with the

3551
02:48:55,470 --> 02:48:53,470
alternatives go with this show and don't

3552
02:48:59,940 --> 02:48:55,480
do it at all don't follow the narrative

3553
02:49:03,330 --> 02:48:59,950
at all all right so is there going to be

3554
02:49:06,990 --> 02:49:03,340
a shift in that and moving forward how

3555
02:49:09,390 --> 02:49:07,000
do they fix it I don't know I really

3556
02:49:12,720 --> 02:49:09,400
really I don't know but watching that

3557
02:49:15,480 --> 02:49:12,730
correspondents dinner they are very

3558
02:49:19,230 --> 02:49:15,490
aware the numbers are not what they used

3559
02:49:23,790 --> 02:49:19,240
to be the numbers are shrinking fox or

3560
02:49:26,400 --> 02:49:23,800
CNN or MSN you know they're competing

3561
02:49:28,500 --> 02:49:26,410
numbers today this is what I want to be

3562
02:49:29,850 --> 02:49:28,510
clear they're competing amongst

3563
02:49:32,880 --> 02:49:29,860
themselves for nothing but the numbers

3564
02:49:34,380 --> 02:49:32,890
are much much smaller than than they

3565
02:49:37,110 --> 02:49:34,390
ever were and they're good they're going

3566
02:49:40,590 --> 02:49:37,120
to continue to shrink they're going to

3567
02:49:42,900 --> 02:49:40,600
continue to go down that path and at the

3568
02:49:44,551 --> 02:49:42,910
Correspondents Dinner it was obvious

3569
02:49:48,421 --> 02:49:44,561
that everybody is aware

3570
02:49:52,171 --> 02:49:48,431
and not having Trump there also spoke

3571
02:49:53,761 --> 02:49:52,181
volumes and people react to that I don't

3572
02:49:56,730 --> 02:49:53,771
know what the future I don't know how it

3573
02:49:59,700 --> 02:49:56,740
holds I'm not I'm not sure when you look

3574
02:50:03,810 --> 02:49:59,710
at a couple of things remember al

3575
02:50:06,001 --> 02:50:03,820
Jazeera Network is gone al Jazeera as

3576
02:50:09,631 --> 02:50:06,011
flashy as it was and was backed by a lot

3577
02:50:13,591 --> 02:50:09,641
of money and it was a was a considered a

3578
02:50:15,631 --> 02:50:13,601
mainstream outlet on television was

3579
02:50:19,320 --> 02:50:15,641
flashy had the right reporters and

3580
02:50:23,850 --> 02:50:19,330
everything was only pulling 2530

3581
02:50:26,881 --> 02:50:23,860
thousand viewers a day think about that

3582
02:50:30,900 --> 02:50:26,891
for a second much smaller numbers than

3583
02:50:33,780 --> 02:50:30,910
this program and the numbers are

3584
02:50:35,580 --> 02:50:33,790
shrinking for CNN and Fox every single

3585
02:50:37,440 --> 02:50:35,590
day they'll talk about the numbers where

3586
02:50:40,501 --> 02:50:37,450
they are competing for who is number one

3587
02:50:43,440 --> 02:50:40,511
but the pie is shrinking it's going down

3588
02:50:45,470 --> 02:50:43,450
and reversing that and getting it going

3589
02:50:48,870 --> 02:50:45,480
in the other direction is tough why

3590
02:50:51,980 --> 02:50:48,880
because people are now listening to and

3591
02:50:56,610 --> 02:50:51,990
going to other sources for their news

3592
02:50:58,801 --> 02:50:56,620
programs like this now although although

3593
02:51:00,841 --> 02:50:58,811
our subject and and what we do on this

3594
02:51:04,830 --> 02:51:00,851
program every single day can never be

3595
02:51:07,740 --> 02:51:04,840
fake news talking about Egypt or today

3596
02:51:10,860 --> 02:51:07,750
with Annie Jacobsen and telekinesis and

3597
02:51:14,251 --> 02:51:10,870
and ESP and the CIA that's not big news

3598
02:51:17,551 --> 02:51:14,261
right but when we talk about news on

3599
02:51:21,001 --> 02:51:17,561
this program whenever we do it it is

3600
02:51:23,370 --> 02:51:21,011
accurate it's accurate and people now

3601
02:51:25,770 --> 02:51:23,380
know that them when when they hear me

3602
02:51:27,751 --> 02:51:25,780
and us and our team here put together

3603
02:51:30,751 --> 02:51:27,761
the news and compile the news together

3604
02:51:33,421 --> 02:51:30,761
that it is accurate and it's not biased

3605
02:51:35,881 --> 02:51:33,431
one way or the other it's just reporting

3606
02:51:39,540 --> 02:51:35,891
the facts and that's easier for you to

3607
02:51:45,091 --> 02:51:39,550
digest and to get through this show than

3608
02:51:48,740 --> 02:51:45,101
it is surviving a CNN news hour or or

3609
02:51:51,180 --> 02:51:48,750
fox or MSNBC or even your local news

3610
02:51:54,360 --> 02:51:51,190
because you don't nobody trusts it

3611
02:51:56,881 --> 02:51:54,370
anymore and I don't know if they are

3612
02:51:58,309 --> 02:51:56,891
going to get those numbers back I really

3613
02:52:00,559 --> 02:51:58,319
really don't and

3614
02:52:03,590 --> 02:52:00,569
having this this upset you have to

3615
02:52:04,429 --> 02:52:03,600
understand why this is so important for

3616
02:52:09,550 --> 02:52:04,439
all of us

3617
02:52:13,159 --> 02:52:09,560
Fox is is a big chunk of the pie and

3618
02:52:15,290 --> 02:52:13,169
they are I don't know how they are going

3619
02:52:18,559 --> 02:52:15,300
to survive this they certainly will of

3620
02:52:20,779 --> 02:52:18,569
course but their importance is going to

3621
02:52:24,260 --> 02:52:20,789
diminish unless they demonstrate to

3622
02:52:26,510 --> 02:52:24,270
everybody else and they're dedicated

3623
02:52:29,059 --> 02:52:26,520
bake and everybody else that doesn't

3624
02:52:32,109 --> 02:52:29,069
watch Fox that they can be trusted and

3625
02:52:37,369 --> 02:52:32,119
that the organization behind the news is

3626
02:52:41,149 --> 02:52:37,379
solid and credible and moral and that's

3627
02:52:44,029 --> 02:52:41,159
a tough thing for Fox to overcome and in

3628
02:52:47,389 --> 02:52:44,039
general mass media in general and the

3629
02:52:50,569 --> 02:52:47,399
news in general has a huge black eye on

3630
02:52:53,029 --> 02:52:50,579
it and that black eye was not caught

3631
02:52:58,099 --> 02:52:53,039
partially is caused by them but it was

3632
02:53:03,229 --> 02:52:58,109
caused by 100% genuine fake news that

3633
02:53:06,439 --> 02:53:03,239
was fiction and created but they not not

3634
02:53:10,489 --> 02:53:06,449
doing their due diligence reported on

3635
02:53:12,559 --> 02:53:10,499
fake news like it was real do you see

3636
02:53:14,809 --> 02:53:12,569
the cycle that's going on here it's

3637
02:53:17,739 --> 02:53:14,819
absolutely incredible and then when you

3638
02:53:21,109 --> 02:53:17,749
throw in to the point of this entire

3639
02:53:23,149 --> 02:53:21,119
diatribe you throw in all of this the

3640
02:53:28,849 --> 02:53:23,159
fact that the government has been doing

3641
02:53:32,389 --> 02:53:28,859
this to us for 70 years we have evidence

3642
02:53:35,779 --> 02:53:32,399
going back to World War Two all the way

3643
02:53:41,840 --> 02:53:35,789
up to today about fake news for their

3644
02:53:44,239 --> 02:53:41,850
agenda it's crazy you know and I was I

3645
02:53:47,569 --> 02:53:44,249
was reading something today I was

3646
02:53:51,590 --> 02:53:47,579
reading a blog today that was literally

3647
02:53:53,869 --> 02:53:51,600
literally like word-for-word a show we

3648
02:53:58,760 --> 02:53:53,879
did a couple of months ago on George

3649
02:54:04,090 --> 02:53:58,770
Orwell in 1984 and the Ministry of Truth

3650
02:54:07,880 --> 02:54:04,100
it is it is spot on the money today

3651
02:54:11,329 --> 02:54:07,890
today that is the problem that mass

3652
02:54:11,631 --> 02:54:11,339
media has in Washington DC that you and

3653
02:54:15,980 --> 02:54:11,641
the

3654
02:54:19,131 --> 02:54:15,990
recognize that we can't trust anything

3655
02:54:19,821 --> 02:54:19,141
that we read we were trusting up to a

3656
02:54:23,560 --> 02:54:19,831
point

3657
02:54:26,930 --> 02:54:23,570
but the bottom fell out on everything in

3658
02:54:29,600 --> 02:54:26,940
2016 so I don't know I don't know this

3659
02:54:32,331 --> 02:54:29,610
shake-up at Fox is a big deal it is a

3660
02:54:33,741 --> 02:54:32,341
big deal I don't know how they're going

3661
02:54:35,930 --> 02:54:33,751
to move forward I don't know if they're

3662
02:54:37,071 --> 02:54:35,940
going to move move closer to the center

3663
02:54:40,900 --> 02:54:37,081
I don't know if they're going to

3664
02:54:44,751 --> 02:54:40,910
concentrate on unbiased reporting and

3665
02:54:46,190 --> 02:54:44,761
opinions I don't know if if Hannity is

3666
02:54:48,621 --> 02:54:46,200
going to wake up and I keep mentioning

3667
02:54:52,400 --> 02:54:48,631
it but he's like the top of the heap now

3668
02:54:54,951 --> 02:54:52,410
they're so how you know it's it's a

3669
02:54:58,400 --> 02:54:54,961
crazy time that we are in CNN right

3670
02:55:01,281 --> 02:54:58,410
there right there but we recognize and

3671
02:55:03,770 --> 02:55:01,291
that's again back to this diatribe we've

3672
02:55:07,071 --> 02:55:03,780
been talking about it on this show for

3673
02:55:09,680 --> 02:55:07,081
three almost four years and all of it

3674
02:55:12,621 --> 02:55:09,690
has come to pass all of it everything

3675
02:55:14,810 --> 02:55:12,631
happened just like we called it it's

3676
02:55:17,991 --> 02:55:14,820
pretty fascinating isn't it and then to

3677
02:55:21,501 --> 02:55:18,001
sit here and speak with Annie Jacobson

3678
02:55:25,680 --> 02:55:21,511
tonight about this and and how it has

3679
02:55:27,701 --> 02:55:25,690
gone on in the in the biggest of of

3680
02:55:31,911 --> 02:55:27,711
[Music]

3681
02:55:34,850 --> 02:55:31,921
events okay the biggest world war two

3682
02:55:38,421 --> 02:55:34,860
and and taken advantage of the media

3683
02:55:41,571 --> 02:55:38,431
worldwide with fake reporting think

3684
02:55:43,551 --> 02:55:41,581
about that and nobody knew and with that

3685
02:55:44,871 --> 02:55:43,561
I'm going to go ahead and get out of

3686
02:55:48,020 --> 02:55:44,881
here there's been another fade to black

3687
02:55:51,650 --> 02:55:48,030
tomorrow night right here Caroline Corey

3688
02:55:54,051 --> 02:55:51,660
is on her new documentary which you can

3689
02:55:57,020 --> 02:55:54,061
go if you go over to Jimmy Church Radio

3690
02:55:59,091 --> 02:55:57,030
calm right now and click you can go over

3691
02:56:02,451 --> 02:55:59,101
to Caroline's website check out the

3692
02:56:04,341 --> 02:56:02,461
trailer the the documentary is

3693
02:56:09,411 --> 02:56:04,351
incredible you do need to watch it

3694
02:56:12,890 --> 02:56:09,421
okay gods among us the point for me in

3695
02:56:16,581 --> 02:56:12,900
this is and I haven't seen this in quite

3696
02:56:20,451 --> 02:56:16,591
a while there is some fascinating new

3697
02:56:23,081 --> 02:56:20,461
stuff here that will cause everyone to

3698
02:56:25,010 --> 02:56:23,091
think it's an excellent slickly produced

3699
02:56:28,309 --> 02:56:25,020
well

3700
02:56:30,349 --> 02:56:28,319
the visual side of it is as exciting

3701
02:56:32,239 --> 02:56:30,359
Caroline's always done that with her

3702
02:56:34,399 --> 02:56:32,249
documentaries but there's some

3703
02:56:37,760 --> 02:56:34,409
information here that that for me I sat

3704
02:56:40,099 --> 02:56:37,770
back and went wow this is something that

3705
02:56:41,809 --> 02:56:40,109
everybody needs to see and we'll cover

3706
02:56:43,760 --> 02:56:41,819
all of that tomorrow night on the show

3707
02:56:46,279 --> 02:56:43,770
this has been fade to black I'm Yours

3708
02:56:48,469 --> 02:56:46,289
Timmy church follow me on Twitter at JDO

3709
02:56:50,929 --> 02:56:48,479
I want to thank Annie Jacobson once

3710
02:56:52,579 --> 02:56:50,939
again you can follow Annie at Annie

3711
02:56:55,130 --> 02:56:52,589
Jacobson on Twitter

3712
02:56:58,210 --> 02:56:55,140
fade to black cigs ecute a-- producer is

3713
02:57:01,159 --> 02:56:58,220
Rita Kumari on show was produced by

3714
02:57:02,659 --> 02:57:01,169
Hilton Jay Paul mark Tico VAR l j3 Rene

3715
02:57:04,489 --> 02:57:02,669
Jonas Thank You Dennis thank you Bob

3716
02:57:07,609 --> 02:57:04,499
announces our Steve Harbor gene bitola

3717
02:57:09,800 --> 02:57:07,619
mark D Cove our lady by del webmaster is

3718
02:57:12,949 --> 02:57:09,810
Drew the geek music doug aldrich intro

3719
02:57:15,460 --> 02:57:12,959
space boys space boy music calm fade to

3720
02:57:20,210 --> 02:57:15,470
black is produced by kjsurya productions

3721
02:57:22,550 --> 02:57:20,220
kanna are a the planet this broadcast is

3722
02:57:24,380 --> 02:57:22,560
only copyright of 2017 by paid to black

3723
02:57:26,420 --> 02:57:24,390
and the game-changer network it cannot

3724
02:57:28,219 --> 02:57:26,430
be rebroadcast downloaded copied or use

3725
02:57:30,019 --> 02:57:28,229
anywhere in the known universe without

3726
02:57:32,179 --> 02:57:30,029
written permission from paid to black or

3727
02:57:33,619 --> 02:57:32,189
the game-changer network I'm Yours Timmy

3728
02:57:36,979 --> 02:57:33,629
Church until tomorrow night

3729
02:57:37,620 --> 02:57:36,989
I want everybody to be safe go back lead

3730
02:57:43,360 --> 02:57:37,630
kepi

3731
02:57:45,990 --> 02:57:43,370
[Music]

3732
02:58:06,750 --> 02:57:46,000
[Applause]